Grrrrrs, Shouts, and If I Were In Chargeof’s
I have felt a movement. A shift. A divide.
Not particularly in that order.
And I have not been able to put my finger on it until a conversation with a friend the other day.
We were discussing the Catalyst Conference I attended a few weeks back.
I was saying how unjaded I am by the whole deal.
My spellcheck just informed me that unjaded is not a word.
Sorry.
Anyways.
It was my first Catayst and it was great.
But I think the unjadedness 
of my soul helped me see something disturbing out here on the east coast.
There was an aptitude in SOME of the hip/relevant/young pastors who I heard speak at the labs to come across cocky and pissed.
At what?
I’m not quite sure. But man do I know they are pissed.
It was like I was at 2 different conferences.
There was a sarcastic / negative / coup type feeling that was all around the labs.
Lots of “amens” and “bring it’s” wrapped around calls for taking the church back to where she should be.
But for the life of me I can’t recall one guy who told me how.
Just seems to me that there is a movement being built on frustration.
And last I heard we need to be moving because of people who need Good News.
Not necessarily by spilling all your Bad News.
We need to quit complaining and start living.
We’ll get more done that way.
Los
RAIN IT DOWN
Tru dat! Bring it! –
I do hear a lot of the same things and wonder why anger is being shown from the pulpit. Bible in one hand – an angry fist in the other. Sure – there are times when a little anger needs to be displayed – but all the time?
I get frustrated – but that’s only my fault. Frustrated because I get in my own way & cause myself so many problems. If I’d just listen to God – obey – and shut up….all would be good.
Laters,
T
Carlos,
Meghan Coffee here.
I have just rejoined the living after being utterly immersed in your blog for the past few days.
I don’t remember HOW I found your blog (I believe I was trying to find more info about Danny Stephens, saw on Google that some ragamuffin dude mentioned him, clicked on the link and found out it was you…I think that’s how it went…) but I am so pleased that I did.
I’ve enjoyed reading and watching everything so much and this last post, along with a various sundry of others, struck a chord in me.
Well said. I completely and utterly agree.
Twas a pleasure to have met you and to have served alongside of you last week, however brief that it was. I hope I get the honour again soon.
Tootles,
Meghan
absolutely well put. or amen…either way. we are all really good at complaining. myself included. thanks for the reminder to keep the good news actually GOOD!!
=) loved the halloween vid.
You know I agrees with ya! That was said in some sort of accent that even I couldn’t understand.
truth. good thoughts. there are so many “i am a christian but i hate the church” books out right now. conferences, pocasts. a lot of people are passionate about this and have good thoughts and a lot of people are making a lot of money. it gets confusing and makes me lose focus.
Rick Warren said something that refocused me…you can’t say you love Jesus Christ but hate his bride.
i think we ALL need to make sure we are not working to support religion and we ARE working to make sure people encounter the living God through what we do.
God bless you, bro.
Thanks for your comments Carlos. While there is a lot of “room for improvement” in our churches (to say the least) I never really get the trash compacter approach to encouraging the brethren to love and good deeds.
amen and bring it.
Welcome to the South! That was just the beginning. We are full of righteous indignation, love of pughs and hatred towards all things NOT Traditional!
Your worldly and too obsessed with being culturally relavant. Don’t say crap, you definatley cant say Pissed, don’t drink wine and don’t even think about getting another tattoo.
No, I’m not mad I have just lived in the South my entire life. It’s an uphill battle but one worth fighting. Keep your eyes on Jesus, being Him and seeing Him and you will be jsut fine.
I think a little frustration goes a long way when its on a personal level.
In my experience, I’ve found myself frustrated to the point of discomfort
Whoops. Posted a little earlier than I wanted.
That discomfort was to motivate me in the direction God wanted me to go, which most of the time, was away from where I had become comfortable.
Consider Elijah, the brook and the ravens. He wasn’t going anywhere until his food supply was gone. Possibly, he had already been told to get up and go on his way, but maybe he’s stubborn like me, and needed some motivation.
I don’t think that such frustration should be taken out in the pulpit though. It’s more of a personal thing in my opinion.
Yea. It is really easy to rally people to be frustrated. It is a lot harder to ralley people to change.
Great thoughts john
Remember it is “His Church”, and if you stay focused on sharing the Gospel, there is no time for negativity. Trust me, every generation have tried to “fix the Church”, yet the bride of Christ continue to impact lives. As I travel abroad and in our nation, and read about our faith, I am more encouraged than discouraged. Remember He is still in control. Let’s rejoice in the daily victories and “refresh each other” in Christ.
Love, DAD
Thanks for that post Los. You nailed it. I have seen/noticed that vibe in some conference settings. I don’t know why. But I have wondered if that actually flows from the stage/pulpits in their churches…hopefully it’s a lot more filtered.
I remember at Catalyst a couple of years ago Bill Hybels spoke. He was slammin’ and talked about what he sees in leaders in their 20’s. It was mainly positive…lot’s on passion & drive & stuff. But then he ended by saying that the most prominent thing he sees and fears is one thing in us…Anger. That we breathe it he said. It comes through in our relationships, leadership & communicating. He said that it scares him. He said that we need to start seeing counselors now, talking about it & dealing with it OR…in his words…that one thing could be the thing that could sink the great potential that we all have.
We like to speak out, preach against & look down on religious spirits…but anger seems to fit that mold just like the rest of them.
Just made me think of Bill’s talk when I read your post.
Keep up the great stuff. God bless.
“We need to quit complaining and start living.”
That is so on bro. I can’t believe there’s only 13 comments. I expect like 200 “amens” to that.
Carlos-
Brad from Catalyst here. Interesting post. I want to hear more from you on this and the perspective towards the labs speakers and maybe the attendees being angry. Shoot me an email at brad.lomenick@catalystspace.com and let’s continue the dialogue.
thanks!
Brad
Hey Brad. Shot you an email. Thanks for stopping by and contributing to the conversation. The feeling I get has a lot less to do with any conference and more to do with the agenda of the rising group of young leaders. I just know that my 66 year old dad does not yet have it figured out yet so he preaches about how to fix your life in Christ as opposed to how to fix the church. Just a different perspective.
Los
“I remember at Catalyst a couple of years ago Bill Hybels spoke. He was slammin’ and talked about what he sees in leaders in their 20’s. It was mainly positive…lot’s on passion & drive & stuff. But then he ended by saying that the most prominent thing he sees and fears is one thing in us…Anger. That we breathe it he said. It comes through in our relationships, leadership & communicating. He said that it scares him. He said that we need to start seeing counselors now, talking about it & dealing with it OR…in his words…that one thing could be the thing that could sink the great potential that we all have.”
I feel whoever said this. Although I’m years away from being a twenty-something, I probably do need counseling because I get so angry and frustrated with the church. And I realize that and I’m trying to get better about being part of the solution instead of complaining all the time. That’s why I’m so grateful for a church like Buckhead Church. Although I know it’s not perfect, I think without it I would have literally lost my mind. But even with that said we have to be careful of falling into the “us” vs “them” mentality like we’re the only ones doing it “right.” I see that creep up from time to time–not a lot, but sometimes. All that being said, as angry as I get with the church, I love it so much I just can’t stay away and I just wish we would do a better job at focusing on what Jesus asked us to do–love people. But that’s a universal, all of us, collective “church” thing, not a building “church” thing…Sigh…
Thanks for sparking this discussion Carlos!
Welcome to the Bible belt my friend. Where going to church and being a christian is a cultural thing. If you say you go to church, it’s accepted, it’s okay, and it looks good on a resume.
For one, I take issue with people characterizing the South so negatively with regards to religious attitude. Religious attitude is found everywhere in different form. Granted, Florida is only southern geographically in my opinion, I’ll accept the south that I live in. I don’t think that’s what Carlos is talking about.
He’s talking about a pent up rage inside of us. Our stubbornness and our view that they (the ones who came before us) have it wrong, and we’re here to save their mess. Anger that we can’t do it now the way that we want, and we’re being held back.
There is a lot to be angry about, and resentful about. I carry the scars to prove it. I see it on the faces and backs of the ones I care about and love. We’ve been hurt and broken, used and abused. Lied to and taken advantage of. Those of us who have managed to stay see and remember this and it angers us. It’s easy to be that way.
Our anger will get the best of us like Kevin Lloyd mentioned if we don’t learn to forgive one another AND be reconciled to one another. I think we’ve forgotten the reconciliation part.
Yea. The issue is not about the religious culture here in the south. Although I would dare say there is NOT a cultured Christianity around here. But I was raised out here so I knew it was coming.
The issue is the idea that we have it nailed down and the church before us, around us, and beside us has it wrong.
That breeds a sense of arrogance that is a bit nauseating.
Andy’s current series called “Judgement Call” hits the nail on the head.
Los
Big amen brother.
Got any ideas?
Any ideas on…?
I’m full of them. But most of the time they are bad ones. So I just try and love my kids, love my wife, and love my God everyday.
Did you read ‘Adventures in Missing The Point’ by Tony Campolo and Brian Mclaren. Touches on how we compromise the gospel and allow American Moral Traditions to become gospel truth.
I read that book a few years back. Great read.
Read those guys (especially Mr. Mclaren) with serious discretion. They have some great ideas, and they definitely have some things to say that the Church in America needs to hear, but they’re a great example of why creativity needs to be carefully connected to orthodoxy.
I won’t turn this very stress-free blog into an emerging/emergent argument, but just use discretion.
Great post.
Just seems to me that there is a movement being built on frustration.
Amen and bring it. Look, we’re all rebels by nature, and it isn’t just rebellion against God that’s sinful. It’s definitely healthy (and necessary, I think) for the church to question our own traditions and try to peer past our cultural assumptions, but when we start rebelling against tradition for rebellion’s sake, we’re completely missing what Christ has called us to be and do.
I like what John mentioned earlier. I think it’s a great point you make Los. Just complaining and being angry without movement or solutions is just destructive. But where is the balance? I think the question is what are we doing with our dissatisfaction?
There are times that a little “complaint” is warranted and is a spark from an actual issue needing to be solved that can then ignite a fire inside of us to “start living.”
I wonder how many great revolutions have been started as a result of dissatisfaction with the status quo. The one that comes to mind the most is Martin Luther. What if he hadn’t gotten angry and challenged the direction of his modern church?
Given, we’re nowhere near the state they were in then. Thus the need for balance. So I don’t disagree AT ALL, just makes me think about the flip side as well.
I completely agree that many who are frustrated with the Church often come off as smug, arrogant, and angry. This is true of both Christians and non-Christians who take issue with the Church.
A careful balance must be struck, however, in our approach to these people. Many of them are passionate, spiritually convicted individuals whose frustration is borne out of loving Christ’s Bride so deeply. Sure, they clearly struggle to work through these frustrations in a Godly and constructive way, but they also make really good points about how different modern American Christianity is from the ancient models of following Jesus.
If we do not lovingly and gently correct and encourage these exasperated saints and instead merely talk about their error, then aren’t we just complaining about the complainers?
Living together in a community of faith is a beautiful and mysterious thing that only God Himself could have designed. It includes both those who have either maintained or (re)discovered a love for the Church as it is and those to whom God has given great insight about Her shortcomings.
No matter on which side of the spectrum we find ourselves, God calls us to love Him first and to love each other (even the frustrated and/or frustrating). For that, there is no substitute.
well said and couldnt agree more carlos…their is so much good to be done in the world…i think back to what andy crouch said that you change culture by creating culture…not by critiquing it…
peace…mike.
Now thas bein’ real. I know we get angry , but scripture says put it aside. If our leaders don’t then the possibility exists that they may lead us astray. I KNOW they don’t wanna do that. Critical post ,los.
grace and peace