i will say that i think we’ll have to agree to disagree on methodology. i just personally don’t want to operate under a ends-justifies-the-means mentality of ministry/Christian living.

thanks for your thoughts. i suppose we should eventually move on to other posts and other thoughts as God continues to water the seeds planted from this conversation.

blessings

I agree with most of what you say, but I disagree that there is “no purpose” in generalizations like this. Whether people like it or not, statements like this get people’s attention and get them talking.

And I hate to break it to you, but I’ve heard similar statistics before. Most of these are backed by valid research.
What? Are we going to stick our fingers in our ears like 6-year-olds just because we don’t like what the statistics say?

It’s not like Los (or Oprah for that matter) revealed some hidden mystery about the world’s situation, but if even ONE person read that statement and said, “Wow; I need to rethink some of my life — I need to DO something to make a difference” — then it’s totally worth it.
For most people, it takes the shock value of hearing something so outrageous to make them come out of their perfect, little bubbles and see the world as it really is.
I will admit: I have issues with Christians who have a knee-jerk reaction to anything considered “LIBERAL.” It’s almost as though some have grouped “Democrats and ALL the things they care about — particularly the environment — as things not worthy of serious consideration by Christians. “Worship the Creator, not the creation!”
Well, yeah.
But what’s wrong with taking a genuine interest in our fellow man and how we are treating this world we have been given? Do we really have to throw the baby out with the bath water?

Please hear me out: I’m not saying that’s what YOU are saying, but I swear to you that I have talked to Christians who feel like that. And that was the *vibe* I was getting from all the angry comments left on this topic… An almost “How DARE you make me feel bad about my opulent lifestyle?”

I see absolutely NO harm or ill intent in what Los posted.
If it makes EVEN ONE person take pause and consider it, then it has a purpose.

I think Jesus went around saying things that made people uncomfortable all the time.

i don’t think i’m feeling defensive at all. i recognize that we waste a lot…lots of food, lots of money, lots of time, lots of effort. i suppose that in the grand scheme of things, wasting our time is just as ungodly as wasting our funds. interestingly, we don’t talk about our time nearly as much as we do our wallets.

i also think that the Church should be the most powerful giving center in the world. that the Church should be clothing the naked, feeding the hungry, etc, while giving the good news of the saving grace of Jesus Christ.

however, i don’t think that generalizations are helpful when discussing the Christian life. what i think is that big, blanket statements that lay guilt and burdens on Christians is not what God intends for us. Jesus said that His yoke is easy and His burden is light. that doesn’t mean we don’t need to sacrifice anything, in fact we are supposed to take up a cross every day and crucify our flesh. what it does mean is that our Lover and Savior isn’t going to hit us in the face and tell us what terrible, terrible disappointments we are to Him.

i hope that makes sense. honestly, i think we in the west have been given much and so we should give much. i think that the love of money is the root of all evil. i think it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.

but i also think that the anti-church, anti-Christian bandwagon we often find ourselves on is one that is not driven by the Spirit of God. that’s all. i think Jesus is a God of love, not of coercion. a God of grace, not a God of guilt.

i think since we love to call for revival we should remember that revival always starts in the individual. i think we should stop giving the finger to Christ’s Bride and check our own personal lives for ways that we might do what God wants us to do better.

what do you think?

Gene, et.,al:
Your defensiveness is very telling, IMHO.

You know, Jesus didn’t ask every person who had wealth to give it up. There were other wealthy people in his day — some of whom Jesus befriended. But when He asked the rich, young ruler to give it up, it was an issue.
Why is that?
Because FOR HIM it was an issue.

Nobody is suggesting you have to throw away your Mac or start wiping with your left hand!
BUT, we should not be so attached to the THINGS of this world that we are ready to “throw down” over a simple suggestion that we Americans consume too much.
Whether YOU like it or not, it’s true.
We waste a LOT.
Do you really — in your heart of hearts — believe that Jesus Christ, if He were here today, would dispute this fact???
REALLY????

And if you need Carlos to hold your hand and explain to you each and every step you can take to make a difference in this world, then God help you. I should think that we — as Christians — should be constantly alert to these illustrations. I was not offended in the least. And I think everyone here with a heart for the poor and the lost and orphaned understood what his intent.

No, it doesn’t sit well with me.
Does that make me any less patriotic?
If you think so, you don’t understand the meaning of patriotism.
Acknowledging a problem is not synonymous with treason.

As long as you are doing ALL God calls you to do THEN the stats WILL change cuz’ we are all being Jesus to people, it is that simple.

I see not guilt trip just reality.

i think it’s rad that God is doing things in your heart.

blessings

To Your Response -

i get that and even agree with that…but what you said is that our resource consumption should not sit well with us…right?

since you’re leaving us to ‘figure it out’ then it seems like you’re indicating that the amount of money we spend is too much in light of the great suffering in the world.

a $1500 macbook (like the one i am using right now) could buy a lot of Bibles/food/AIDS medicine for people who desperately need it. so…either God doesn’t want ANY of us to have macbooks until there is no more suffering in the world, or there must be a more personal, more intimate way of finding out how He wants us to reach out to others…a way that doesn’t include me telling you what you have to do or vice versa.

To Your Attitude -

i think your readers are faithful to meet you more than half-way in a lot of the ways you choose to write. for example, when you talk about self-pimping i guess i don’t really assume that you are actually talking about trading sexual favors for money…after all, i believe the term ‘pimping’ indicates procuring prostitution. so how about you meet me half-way with my admittedly non-verbatim quoting. i think we all understood what was meant.

…either that or lets think of some new punctuation that signifies paraphrasing. whatever you decide is fine with me.