Comments on: Red Rover Red Rover Send Worship Talks Over http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/04/red-rover-red-rover-send-worship-talks-over/ Carlos Whittaker's Weblog Fri, 10 Feb 2012 08:05:38 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: electric fence for dogs http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/04/red-rover-red-rover-send-worship-talks-over/#comment-493046 electric fence for dogs Sat, 14 May 2011 08:12:22 +0000 http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/?p=4902#comment-493046 The subsequent time I learn a weblog, I hope that it doesnt disappoint me as much as this one. I mean, I know it was my option to learn, but I truly thought youd have something interesting to say. All I hear is a bunch of whining about something that you might fix in case you werent too busy in search of attention. The subsequent time I learn a weblog, I hope that it doesnt disappoint me as much as this one. I mean, I know it was my option to learn, but I truly thought youd have something interesting to say. All I hear is a bunch of whining about something that you might fix in case you werent too busy in search of attention.

]]> By: Invisible Fence http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/04/red-rover-red-rover-send-worship-talks-over/#comment-249689 Invisible Fence Sat, 15 Nov 2008 21:49:02 +0000 http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/?p=4902#comment-249689 Great questions! now I need to go think of an answer... I'll be back and subscribing to the feed! Great questions! now I need to go think of an answer… I'll be back and subscribing to the feed!

]]> By: Invisible Fence http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/04/red-rover-red-rover-send-worship-talks-over/#comment-248645 Invisible Fence Sat, 15 Nov 2008 13:49:02 +0000 http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/?p=4902#comment-248645 Great questions! now I need to go think of an answer... I'll be back and subscribing to the feed! Great questions! now I need to go think of an answer… I'll be back and subscribing to the feed!

]]> By: Renee http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/04/red-rover-red-rover-send-worship-talks-over/#comment-193732 Renee Sat, 26 Apr 2008 04:59:50 +0000 http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/?p=4902#comment-193732 1. To ascend the throne room...we are gathered with the Angels and the people who have gone before us on the Lord's Day! What a priviledge...And I think worship is vital, but I really think Eucharist/Communion is the climax of it all. Therein lies the mystery. Its about HIM! Who or what else do we get to call Holy, Holy, Holy. What a priviledge we have on Sunday! 2. I think God uses us in spite of us...so yes. Personally would I want it for a Lord's Day celebration, no...its about meeting Him that day. I just think Sunday morning is set apart, but I would love to worship in that manner at some other time. I was raised that way...I do have a soft spot for it. I just see Sunday morning for a different focus...HIM. Such good questions! 1. To ascend the throne room…we are gathered with the Angels and the people who have gone before us on the Lord’s Day! What a priviledge…And I think worship is vital, but I really think Eucharist/Communion is the climax of it all. Therein lies the mystery. Its about HIM! Who or what else do we get to call Holy, Holy, Holy. What a priviledge we have on Sunday!

2. I think God uses us in spite of us…so yes. Personally would I want it for a Lord’s Day celebration, no…its about meeting Him that day. I just think Sunday morning is set apart, but I would love to worship in that manner at some other time. I was raised that way…I do have a soft spot for it. I just see Sunday morning for a different focus…HIM.

Such good questions!

]]> By: Kathryn http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/04/red-rover-red-rover-send-worship-talks-over/#comment-191879 Kathryn Sat, 19 Apr 2008 21:44:48 +0000 http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/?p=4902#comment-191879 1. I think that many others have expressed my answer to the first question. There are simple, but powerful, truths found in the words people have expressed on this blog. Thanks for sharing them. 2. In regards to worship.....what a privilege to be able to sharpen one another and ask these important questions. The Lord looks at our hearts and I do believe that different churches are "called" to minister in different ways. How we invite God's people into His presence through song will also look very different. I think it is so important to remember that whatever lights we have or don't have...whatever style we present...it's just all about Him. If the rocks cry out...then I pretty much don't need anything more than a heart longing to worship my Savior. If the Holy Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead is alive in me and YOU...then we pretty much don't need anything more than the power of the Holy Spirit at work (hopefully) in and through us...drawing the lost, calling each name...and causing us to hunger for more of Him. Are the lights and the music and sound wrong? Of course not:) He loves us. If we invite him according to His word... there He will be in our midst. I believe that people can be saved from the first note played on a guitar. We don't need the "stuff," we just need more of Him. Sometimes we try hard to create an "environment" for people through worship. Doesn't the Lord just want to exalt him....for wherever two or more gather in his name, there he is in our midst...just waiting for us to listen, to linger, and to leave filled and blessed. It's awesome to have so much technology at your disposal.If the Lord is calling your church to worship with lights and visual art...then it sounds like you need to do it with everything you've got! And so you are. We all just need to be good stewards with what God has given to us. 1. I think that many others have expressed my answer to the first question. There are simple, but powerful, truths found in the words people have expressed on this blog. Thanks for sharing them.
2. In regards to worship…..what a privilege to be able to sharpen one another and ask these important questions. The Lord looks at our hearts and I do believe that different churches are “called” to minister in different ways. How we invite God’s people into His presence through song will also look very different. I think it is so important to remember that whatever lights we have or don’t have…whatever style we present…it’s just all about Him. If the rocks cry out…then I pretty much don’t need anything more than a heart longing to worship my Savior. If the Holy Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead is alive in me and YOU…then we pretty much don’t need anything more than the power of the Holy Spirit at work (hopefully) in and through us…drawing the lost, calling each name…and causing us to hunger for more of Him. Are the lights and the music and sound wrong? Of course not:) He loves us. If we invite him according to His word… there He will be in our midst. I believe that people can be saved from the first note played on a guitar. We don’t need the “stuff,” we just need more of Him. Sometimes we try hard to create an “environment” for people through worship. Doesn’t the Lord just want to exalt him….for wherever two or more gather in his name, there he is in our midst…just waiting for us to listen, to linger, and to leave filled and blessed.

It’s awesome to have so much technology at your disposal.If the Lord is calling your church to worship with lights and visual art…then it sounds like you need to do it with everything you’ve got! And so you are.
We all just need to be good stewards with what God has given to us.

]]> By: BB http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/04/red-rover-red-rover-send-worship-talks-over/#comment-190838 BB Wed, 16 Apr 2008 13:45:40 +0000 http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/?p=4902#comment-190838 I've been wrestling with these sort of questions for sometime. As a worship leader, I identify a lot with some of what Anne wrote in her original blog post. It really messes with my head when people come up to me and say "So, are we going to have good music this morning?" or "Your music meant so much to me today". I don't think that comments like these are inherently bad- I try not to read into them too much, but when you're working so hard to see people moved closer to God, you start to wonder if the culture you're creating is counterproductive to what God wants when you start hearing things like that. At this point, all I know to do is to make sure that my motives are staying true to helping move people closer to God and to let Him know that I'm trying my best to see that happen. If I don't focus on that, I fear that I'll crumble under the enormity of it all. As to the questions Los posses: 1. I think the book of Titus answers what the purpose of the Church is. Paul doesn't give a lot of answers as to how some of this should be worked out, but he makes it clear what churches should do. The thing that struck me the most as I read through it was that we should teach our people how to excel at doing good works. How to meet the urgent needs of others. The other thing that is stressed is to live humble, godly lives so that we have a good witness among the unbelievers around us. To live in a way that leaves no room for others to despise us. Paul says that these are the things that we should teach our people. It may seem over simplified, but I don't know of many churches who are just focusing on these things. 2. I absolutely believe that God can engage the hearts of people through all of the items Los mentions. God has engaged my heart through them and I know that He has in others as well. But I think that He can equally engage us without them. My fear is that we get people thinking that they can't connect with God without all of those things. I know that for me, I can start to have a hard time worshiping God without those things if I'm not careful. Another fear of mine on this topic is that we try so hard to create a relevant environment for seekers that we remove the onus of evangelism from our people. I'm not saying that we should throw away our "invest and invite" strategies, but I do think that we are producing a generation of Christians who have no idea how to personally share Christ with others because we've taught them that their job is just to get people to church and we'll take care of the rest. So, like I said, I wrestle with all of this, but I don't mean to put down any other church's methods. The last thing we need is to be throwing rocks at each other's methods. As long as Christ is your goal, then we're all on the same team. I’ve been wrestling with these sort of questions for sometime. As a worship leader, I identify a lot with some of what Anne wrote in her original blog post. It really messes with my head when people come up to me and say “So, are we going to have good music this morning?” or “Your music meant so much to me today”. I don’t think that comments like these are inherently bad- I try not to read into them too much, but when you’re working so hard to see people moved closer to God, you start to wonder if the culture you’re creating is counterproductive to what God wants when you start hearing things like that. At this point, all I know to do is to make sure that my motives are staying true to helping move people closer to God and to let Him know that I’m trying my best to see that happen. If I don’t focus on that, I fear that I’ll crumble under the enormity of it all.

As to the questions Los posses:

1. I think the book of Titus answers what the purpose of the Church is. Paul doesn’t give a lot of answers as to how some of this should be worked out, but he makes it clear what churches should do. The thing that struck me the most as I read through it was that we should teach our people how to excel at doing good works. How to meet the urgent needs of others. The other thing that is stressed is to live humble, godly lives so that we have a good witness among the unbelievers around us. To live in a way that leaves no room for others to despise us. Paul says that these are the things that we should teach our people. It may seem over simplified, but I don’t know of many churches who are just focusing on these things.

2. I absolutely believe that God can engage the hearts of people through all of the items Los mentions. God has engaged my heart through them and I know that He has in others as well. But I think that He can equally engage us without them. My fear is that we get people thinking that they can’t connect with God without all of those things. I know that for me, I can start to have a hard time worshiping God without those things if I’m not careful. Another fear of mine on this topic is that we try so hard to create a relevant environment for seekers that we remove the onus of evangelism from our people. I’m not saying that we should throw away our “invest and invite” strategies, but I do think that we are producing a generation of Christians who have no idea how to personally share Christ with others because we’ve taught them that their job is just to get people to church and we’ll take care of the rest.

So, like I said, I wrestle with all of this, but I don’t mean to put down any other church’s methods. The last thing we need is to be throwing rocks at each other’s methods. As long as Christ is your goal, then we’re all on the same team.

]]> By: KC http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/04/red-rover-red-rover-send-worship-talks-over/#comment-190710 KC Wed, 16 Apr 2008 01:16:02 +0000 http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/?p=4902#comment-190710 Los This post has really made me think since I first read it Sunday night and since I can seem to shake it I decided I would post, sorry for the length. In response to Number 1, God clearly desires that his followers gather in corporate worship 'WHERE TWO OR MORE ARE GATHERED...". Sunday morning at Church is a chance to commune not only with God but to gather in one of the few places, at least for me, that the cares of the outside world tend to disappear and I am able to focus on something completely different and much larger & more important than me. While I am sure that many folks would say that I should find other time for that and I do, but it is absolutely the one time where no phone will ring, email arrive or a kid's scream and it is is precious to me. Sunday also give those of us not called to full time ministry a chance to serve the Church and hopefully offer a vision of selfless service. On question 2, my heart has been laid bare more times by a video clip, performance art or a song that really captures the picture of Christ's love for us than by any other element in a worship service. I think that God works with the tools of the day, whether it was the hands of artist in the Middle Ages, the beautiful concerts of Mozart or Beethoven, or simply a church choir raising their voices in praise. I grew up attending traditional protestant churches throughout the South and I think one of the primary problems facing the local church is that it has failed to modernize and recognize that for many people the traditional piano and organ are a passe' and that for many non-believers it is not just not getting it done. Instead these folks are turning away from the Church simply because they believe it has lost touch with modern times. Consequently, I believe that some churches are recognizing that this multi-media generation is in need of constant technological stimulation, Twitter anyone, and has decided to meet those needs in a worship environment that either sparks an interest in our heavenly father, furthers their relationship with him, or most importantly brings them into a relationship with Jesus Christ. I have seen this happen at Buckhead and look forward to what's next. Los

This post has really made me think since I first read it Sunday night and since I can seem to shake it I decided I would post, sorry for the length.

In response to Number 1, God clearly desires that his followers gather in corporate worship ‘WHERE TWO OR MORE ARE GATHERED…”. Sunday morning at Church is a chance to commune not only with God but to gather in one of the few places, at least for me, that the cares of the outside world tend to disappear and I am able to focus on something completely different and much larger & more important than me. While I am sure that many folks would say that I should find other time for that and I do, but it is absolutely the one time where no phone will ring, email arrive or a kid’s scream and it is is precious to me. Sunday also give those of us not called to full time ministry a chance to serve the Church and hopefully offer a vision of selfless service.

On question 2, my heart has been laid bare more times by a video clip, performance art or a song that really captures the picture of Christ’s love for us than by any other element in a worship service. I think that God works with the tools of the day, whether it was the hands of artist in the Middle Ages, the beautiful concerts of Mozart or Beethoven, or simply a church choir raising their voices in praise. I grew up attending traditional protestant churches throughout the South and I think one of the primary problems facing the local church is that it has failed to modernize and recognize that for many people the traditional piano and organ are a passe’ and that for many non-believers it is not just not getting it done. Instead these folks are turning away from the Church simply because they believe it has lost touch with modern times. Consequently, I believe that some churches are recognizing that this multi-media generation is in need of constant technological stimulation, Twitter anyone, and has decided to meet those needs in a worship environment that either sparks an interest in our heavenly father, furthers their relationship with him, or most importantly brings them into a relationship with Jesus Christ. I have seen this happen at Buckhead and look forward to what’s next.

]]> By: West http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/04/red-rover-red-rover-send-worship-talks-over/#comment-190329 West Mon, 14 Apr 2008 17:35:26 +0000 http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/?p=4902#comment-190329 Ok...I'm going with my own opinion here as I just don't have the time to read through all the responses that you and your dang popular blog get. (I'm not jealous) 1. be careful about being proud of what buckhead church is doing. it's not that you're not doing great things...just be careful...I love you and what you do..don't want to see it get more important than everything else 2. Weekend gatherings....well, to promote bonding and fellowship. We are supposed to step out of our comfort zone and get to know people we have yet to meet. (right?) We are to grow closer with God...Together 3. What was that question again? (scrolled up...got it) Yes, I think God can reach a person's heart through production, etc... I played drums at and attended Crossroads Chruch in Corona back in '03....then went to my current church and almost didn't go back because the music was so bad and I could NOT connect....I play drums at my church in hopes to help....when I feel I am not helping, I am done....not the point, but a comment. There are those in a service who are distracted w/life and worries......that is merely part of our job, but is our responsibility all the same......help these souls release their worries and worship God. Ok…I’m going with my own opinion here as I just don’t have the time to read through all the responses that you and your dang popular blog get. (I’m not jealous)

1. be careful about being proud of what buckhead church is doing. it’s not that you’re not doing great things…just be careful…I love you and what you do..don’t want to see it get more important than everything else

2. Weekend gatherings….well, to promote bonding and fellowship. We are supposed to step out of our comfort zone and get to know people we have yet to meet. (right?) We are to grow closer with God…Together

3. What was that question again? (scrolled up…got it) Yes, I think God can reach a person’s heart through production, etc… I played drums at and attended Crossroads Chruch in Corona back in ’03….then went to my current church and almost didn’t go back because the music was so bad and I could NOT connect….I play drums at my church in hopes to help….when I feel I am not helping, I am done….not the point, but a comment. There are those in a service who are distracted w/life and worries……that is merely part of our job, but is our responsibility all the same……help these souls release their worries and worship God.

]]> By: Scott Fillmer http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/04/red-rover-red-rover-send-worship-talks-over/#comment-190315 Scott Fillmer Mon, 14 Apr 2008 16:22:42 +0000 http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/?p=4902#comment-190315 The church sometimes "tries" to do it all, but I believe the original church was created for "worship". I don't have the scriptures to back it up right this minute but I will try to post them again later. The original church was a place where Believers would come in and worship, not the thousand other things that we sometimes try to accomplish in a 60 minute period. It was a time to renew the spirit, strengthen the conviction to follow the teachings of Christ, and give the Believers the strength they needed to "go out". When we meet on Sunday morning we should be engaged in worship (in my opinion). That doesn't mean that I don't think the church has other responsibilities, it does, but at other times. The church sometimes “tries” to do it all, but I believe the original church was created for “worship”. I don’t have the scriptures to back it up right this minute but I will try to post them again later.

The original church was a place where Believers would come in and worship, not the thousand other things that we sometimes try to accomplish in a 60 minute period.

It was a time to renew the spirit, strengthen the conviction to follow the teachings of Christ, and give the Believers the strength they needed to “go out”.

When we meet on Sunday morning we should be engaged in worship (in my opinion).

That doesn’t mean that I don’t think the church has other responsibilities, it does, but at other times.

]]> By: Los' brother's wife's brother http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/04/red-rover-red-rover-send-worship-talks-over/#comment-190313 Los' brother's wife's brother Mon, 14 Apr 2008 16:12:40 +0000 http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/?p=4902#comment-190313 1. To be brutally general, the weekend gathering should be a time when the attendee will be re-centered on Christ, encouraged, and sent back into the world to accomplish the call on thier individual life. Unfortunately (this is the brutally general part), we live in a 'serve me' culture, and expect to be catered to, rather than seek opportunities to serve. If people show up on the weekend, and they don't allow what they do and hear to effect their life during the week, it is worthless. 2. In a perfect world, our Bible alone would suffice to induce powerful worship...it works in the 3rd world. What would happen if Christians expressed their contentment, not only in the worship service, but also with their daily lives? What if we were to forsake our McMansions and took over the trailer parks sharing with everyone that no one would have need? I'm a little tired of looking to the government to accomplish the Church's call to care for the poor...and at the same time, I write this from my McMansion on my laptop, etc, etc, etc. I'm discouraged that my faith will only stretch to the point that I'm confortable...then I find excuses. Screw comfort...live for Jesus. I'm working on it. 1. To be brutally general, the weekend gathering should be a time when the attendee will be re-centered on Christ, encouraged, and sent back into the world to accomplish the call on thier individual life. Unfortunately (this is the brutally general part), we live in a ‘serve me’ culture, and expect to be catered to, rather than seek opportunities to serve. If people show up on the weekend, and they don’t allow what they do and hear to effect their life during the week, it is worthless.

2. In a perfect world, our Bible alone would suffice to induce powerful worship…it works in the 3rd world. What would happen if Christians expressed their contentment, not only in the worship service, but also with their daily lives? What if we were to forsake our McMansions and took over the trailer parks sharing with everyone that no one would have need? I’m a little tired of looking to the government to accomplish the Church’s call to care for the poor…and at the same time, I write this from my McMansion on my laptop, etc, etc, etc. I’m discouraged that my faith will only stretch to the point that I’m confortable…then I find excuses. Screw comfort…live for Jesus. I’m working on it.

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