Mega-Church Myths
I was part of a homeless church for 9 years.
I remember driving by Harvest Christian Fellowship on my way to and from work and thinking gangsta thoughts.
Most of the negative conversations I had in my early days of ministry were built out of jealousy and self worth.
After being a part of what is deemed as a “mega-church” for almost a year now, let me be a mythbuster.
This might take the wind out of a few your sails, but it’s better that way.
Myth: You can’t find real relationships in a mega-church
Truth: You were not in my living room Sunday night with Heather, Zach, Meghan, and I.
Myth: Mega-Churches are a mile wide and an inch deep.
Truth: I dive deeper into the core of who this church is every week and have yet to even see the bottom. When you figure out how to love your neighbor then maybe we will dive into the hermeneutical Hebrew apostolic translations.
Myth: Mega-Churches have it all figured out.
Truth: They hired me. If this was true. It no longer is.
Myth: Because they pay musicians to play on Sunday morning, there is not as much “heart” on stage.
Truth: A paycheck does not forfeit love for God. Honestly, you not only have musicians that “have heart” on stage, you now have musicians that can play their instruments well.
Myth: Mega-Churches are built on a man. The main communicator.
Truth: I have not heard one baptism video on Sunday morning with the line “I accepted Andy Stanley into my heart and am telling the world I am living the rest of my life for him!”
Myth: Mega-Church staffs are cooperate, non-relational, and stiff.
Truth: Ummmmmmmmmmmm
Myth: Mega-Churches are too uptight with their money and should just give it all away.
Truth: Please find me the verse that says churches are supposed to be stupid with their money. I am more grateful than ever to have the financial teams we have at NPMI.
Myth: Mega-Churches should spend their money rescuing orphans with all their dollars instead of building fancy buildings.
Truth: They should rescue orphans. They should also rescue Bob the 38 year old banker who lives off of Tower Place Drive in Buckhead.
Myth: 70% of all male staff try to look like Rob Bell.
Truth: OK. You got us. This one is true.
OK. I’ve got to head to work and spend the day watching Nooma videos.
Los
can’t wait to hear the haters on this one, I’m glad you brought up the “mile wide inch deep” myth
These are great, Los. You’ve hit the nail on the head. I started getting flack for working at a mega-church when we crossed the 5000 mark. But that second to last myth about the rescuing orphans and Bob – is so true. And being in a mega church allows you to do both well. We actually tithe more than 10% of our budget to help fund our mission’s initiatives… At the end of the day it is about Jesus, thanks for making that in-your-face clear!
Wow – great post Los – I especially loved the part about “they didn’t accept Andy Stanley into their heart” – great perspective!
Here’s one:
Myth: Mega Churches use technology (Lights, Cameras, Graphics) to perform to their congregation rather than lead their congregation in worship.
Truth: Technology creates an atmosphere and makes it easier for people to enter into worship – most of the time the issue at hand is preference of style, and that is something entirely different.
Marcus
I just wish it wasn’t such a big deal whether our churches are big or small. I just wish we could all bust our tails to spread the good news of Jesus and stop all the in-fussing.
Los,
thanks for a great laugh this AM. I know where you’re coming from. We (SSCC) aren’t a mega-church by normal standards, but pushing 2,000+ each Sunday on a small, South Georgia Island (St. Simons Island) puts us in that status in many eyes around here .. and I’ve heard all of those expressions about us.
Go figure.
only 70% want to look like Rob?
i thought dark trendy glasses were a requirement. you better go buy a pair.
I always LOVED watching the baptism videos at North Point!!
I’ve got to tell you, I have believed some of these myths in my time and have even been wrestling with a couple of them this week. These are great insights for those of us with benefit of your perspective. Thanks
Guys. Great thoughts.
Bernard. Me too. I can’t wait.
This was my favorite…
Myth: 70% of all male staff try to look like Rob Bell.
Truth: OK. You got us. This one is true.
Mars Hill was the first “mega church I had ever been to and loved it… looking back now, maybe it was all because of his look… LOL!!
“When you figure out how to love your neighbor then maybe we will dive into the hermeneutical Hebrew apostolic translations.”
Ha! So true. I need to remind myself of this all the time.
Love this post.
I am on staff at a “Mega-church” and I must say that it’s big for a reason. I think Jesus told us to love Him and others, but no where did he put a cap on it.
Myth: 70% of all male staff try to look like Rob Bell.
Truth: OK. You got us. This one is true.
Come on, I’m going to say 80-85% :0)
But I do have to challenge you on the relationships ‘myth’.
I can speak from experience because I actually went to Harvest for 9 years, and then went on to help start another Calvary Chapel mega-church — We started in a mobile home and they now have 4,000 plus folks — but left that church 5 years ago because my whole family was struggling for lack of relationships.
Now we go to a much, much smaller body, and it has literally transformed our family and our faith to be in such a rich community.
I’m not saying that good relationships and rich community to do not exist in mega-churches, but would you agree that they can be much more difficult to foster, and that they require much greater intentionality among the leadership to make that happen?
I totally agree with you on the relationship aspects. It is hard to imagine that when you go to a 24000+ member church you would be able to have quality relationships, but it is about breaking it down to the smaller level and being intentional about sharing the love of Christ to everyone around you. When I attended Bellevue in Mphs, I had so much growth because the people around me took the time to love on me and disciple me. When we moved to N’ville and started attending our church we are at now (of which Ed Stetzer is the interim teaching pastor) I found that it was not all about me and that I had to use what I’d learned at a much larger church to help foster relationships in a church 1/3 of its size.
Also, our pastor died almost a year ago, and I am happy to say that although he is sadly missed, our church has not missed a beat. It is because he had an amazing support staff and he was a humble leader who did not mind that it was all about Jesus and not about him. (sorry for the long comment)
Can you recommend a mega-church in the Laguna Beach area?
I have a friend who’s looking for one like ours and struggling…
who the heck is rob bell? does he have a line of clothes like armani or something?
We’ve been going to Granger for 2.5 years & have yet to experience close relationships. They offer study groups, but no child care. And spending $10 an hour is NOT in our Dave Ramsey budget.
So I guess we’re sacrificing relationship to be debt free right now.
It seems like the 20 families in our hood that (I’ve heard) attend our church would want to dive into life together. I wish I knew who they were.
Long time reader – First time commenter…
I’m on the extreme opposite end of a mega-church. We are involved in a church plant (not staff-just members) and currently we have about 16 couples and maybe 4 singles (and plenty of kids!) I’m having my own inner dialogue (and w/my hubby) about whether we are doing the right thing. It’s hard maintaining relationships (close) with 16 couples and “build” community. All the while trying like hell just to maintain at home. It is requiring SOOO much time and after a “kick-off” meeting last night, hubby says that it’s now “all hands on deck” as we shoot for an official opening day of 10/12.
*sigh*
wow. that’s alot of info from a 1st time commenter…sorry. just got a lot of thoughts running through right now & your post made me think about it all this a.m.
I don’t have a problem with mega-churches. I go to one. But I do seriously wonder what would happen to my church if the main communicator left and they replaced him with a mediocre communicator. People don’t accept my pastor into their hearts but they keep coming (and telling their friends about the church) because they love his sermons.
——–
Myth: Mega Churches use technology (Lights, Cameras, Graphics) to perform to their congregation rather than lead their congregation in worship.
Truth: Technology creates an atmosphere and makes it easier for people to enter into worship – most of the time the issue at hand is preference of style, and that is something entirely different.
Marcus
——–
Great thoughts there! We only house 150 on any given sunday and as the Atmosphere coordinator, I get asked often if the tech equipment I will use when we expand will be too flashy or simply too much… I think not.
P.S. My parents are moving to GA Los and are heavily considering attending your church so if they do, we’ll have to keep in touch, tech wise
Thanks for this post. Love it. To carry it further, I think that the SIZE of the church has nothing to do with its HEART. A smaller church can be just as heartless and non-relational as a huge church, and vice-versa.
Zack. I’m not going to say it’s your fault because I don’t know how Harvest intentionally tried to connect people. But believe me it is not a number issue. While at Sandals I saw people struggle to get connected while we were running 200.
Mandy. Yup. Totally valid concern. NorthPoint offers child care reimbursements up to a certain rate. This goes for EVERY parent in a small group.
Christie.
Don’t forget to Choose to Cheat!!!
No church is worth your family.
None.
Kari…
I totally agree.
I just hope there is intentionality on the part of the teaching pastor to raise up GREAT communicators from within.
I know there is here and already see some GREAT leaders in our future who are not even 25 yet.
Great thoughts guys. Keep them coming.
Los
Great thoughts Los, thumbs up on this post!
Great Post Los!
I totally agree with you on this but I also see why some people do think these things. I currently attend what you could maybe clasify as a “Small Mega Church” but before than, I attended a much larger mega church. I loved it but started feeling as though it was more like a production than a worship service. After attending the Hillsong United Conference I spoke with the worship pastor and one of the “Elders” (I hate that term) and expressed the need that we have to get more spiritual and maybe have some prayer time before each weekend and really pray for God to use us and transform lives through us. I told them that thought the lights and outfits are cool and all it isn’t the most important aspect of the weekend. Well, I got totally shut down and the exact words that the elder said were,
“That’s all awesome and all but to us the lights and cool outfits we wear on stage are more important than what you want to impliment and we simply don’t have the time to do it.”
Those are the words that gave me the impression that all mega churches are like this. Quite honestly that was one of the hardest things I had to listen to coming from a church. I felt dissapointed and even abandoned by my church. Needless to say, I didn’t stay there much longer.
I am now at another Mega Church and I love it. Yes they have the cool lights, amps, set designs and all that but they stress that the most important aspect of worship is our heart. I love my old church and keep recommending to people because even though God didn’t want me there, it is an awesome church!
Jesus was a mega-church promoter. It seems to me that the “world” John 3:16 refers to includes a lot of people – bigger than any mega-church I have ever heard of.
You forgot “Mega-Churches are unBiblical.” Would love to hear what you think about that one.
I do think there’s an issue with relationships in that the pastor of a megachurch can’t possibly be aware of what’s going on in the lives of most of the church members, and therefore preach to address those issues. I grew up in one of the first megachurches and hated it, but I understand that it works for some people. God’s bigger than our preferences.
I am too a long time reader and a First time commenter…
This is a greatly inspiring post. Thanks for the thoughts and insight as I will share the news in my small town where the consensus thoughts are “I love a small church in a small town where I know the pastor and he/she knows me!!!”
“I do think there’s an issue with relationships in that the pastor of a megachurch can’t possibly be aware of what’s going on in the lives of most of the church members, and therefore preach to address those issues.”
I would ask this though, “DO you honestly think that s pastor of a church of 300 can know what most of the people are dealing with in life and therefore effectively preach to those issue?”
Also is it the pastors job to know what is going on in every individuals life OR is it his job to help foster community where you can pug into a community group (small group, house church, tribe – whatever we call them) and be known and loved on a deeper level?
This is great! Love the insight.
Right on Los! Go tell them! OK, go tell US
I was a youth pastor for four years at a “mini” megachurch (1,000+) and I experienced the strengths and weaknesses of large organizations. In my opinion the health of any church is based on the quality of relationships among the people- normally fostered in small groups or a similar setting. People who attend a service but then never really plug into real relationships aren’t experiencing true community or “church”. At one point we had over 250 teenagers attending our service each week yet only about 20% of them were in small groups. So I think we really had about 50 teens experiencing “church”. I have no problem with large churches as long as we realize that a Sunday Service, while beneficial, is a very slim piece of what it means to truly be the church. So maybe a “church” of 5,000 is really a church of 500, 1,000, or 2,000 in terms of the people really experiencing true community. Just my thoughts.
Myth: Territory.
Truth: What’s good for the “big” church around the corner is good for the city. Period.
Thanks for allowing God to use you in the town.
Signed,
Derek – the pastor within sight of Buckhead Church.
Myth: Territory.
Truth: What’s good for the “big” church around the corner is good for the city. Period.
Thanks for allowing God to use you in this town.
Signed,
Derek – the pastor within sight of Buckhead Church.
Sorry it posted twice! – Derek
I just got done watching “the God’s Aren’t Angry.” Now I’m online trying to find a new outfit that matches Rob’s, and they pay me to do this. I love my life.
“I would ask this though, “Do you honestly think that s pastor of a church of 300 can know what most of the people are dealing with in life and therefore effectively preach to those issue?”
“Also is it the pastors job to know what is going on in every individuals life OR is it his job to help foster community where you can pug into a community group (small group, house church, tribe – whatever we call them) and be known and loved on a deeper level?”
I think the pastor’s job is to direct the community to God. So, yeah, in a sense, I think the pastor does need to have a general idea of what’s going on in the smaller communities that the church fosters. And I think the pastor of a church of less than 500 has a much better shot at being able to do that than does the pastor of a church of 5,0000. But like I said, I’m only anti-megachurch for myself…
Carlos…
i love reading your blogs and it wont stop with this one but bro…come on, on a few of your “truths.”
Truth: I have not heard one baptism video on Sunday morning with the line “I accepted Andy Stanley into my heart and am telling the world I am living the rest of my life for him!”
IF God took Andy to another location and a no-name came in as pastor…you cant tell me that you wouldn’t loose a good number of your attenders
you and i both know that many speak the name of Christ but their lives are so far from him. weak truth bro.
Truth: They should rescue orphans. They should also rescue Bob the 38 year old banker who lives off of Tower Place Drive in Buckhead.
DOES BOB NEED a multi-million dollar buildings to reach him in Buckhead? is it about wowing Bob with a building or wowing him when he is introduced to Christ for the first time? where’s the line between trusting God in His infinite greatness and building a great building to attract him (Bob) to church.
i love Andy Stanley and all he is doing for the kingdom. i have learned so much from him from leadership conferences and his books…even from the distance from Atlanta to ABQ, New Mexico. i am not trashing him nor you.
i have worked in a mega church too and can say that there are some pro’s and con’s…of both…small time church and mega-church.
i think that you have to admit that there is some truth in the questions and concerns raised today against the mega-church. many are idiots and complainers in their remarks against the MC and their remarks stem from jealousy and low self esteem.
you comments seem more defensive to these types of questions/comments raised and not truly supportive of the MC.
i love you and your entries. i just thought i wouldn’t jump on the bandwagon without playing devils advocate first. in my “theology of ministry,” of how God created me for His glory, i may never jump on that bandwagon again.
jy
PS Jordan is dead-on re: the church’s priorities with expensive buildings. God can reach Bob the Banker through us without it, but I don’t think orphans get to live if we don’t rethink our priorities.
Totally agree. We support the vision of the ministry and see God doing some amazing things in ATL.
Btw, did anybody else hear or see the teaser a few years back of Andy appearing in a Nooma? Never happened and the tease was removed from wiki. Too bad. Maybe one day.
heh heh, he said hermeneutical…
@ texas in africa – I do agree that the pastors of smaller churches do have a better shot. And I do think they should have a pulse on their smaller communities. I do think, though, that the reality is no one can really connect with much more than 15-20.
I guess I’m asking from that level. I mean how much involvement can one person have into 500 people’s live on a personal level? I’m not coming against you for me the mega church thing doesn’t appeal either honestly. I do think there’s a bigger question at hand though when talking about fostering community.
@ jordan – I’m definitely not picking an argument – I’m just thinking through and processing things myself.
I think a good question is, “does God call some of us to be filthy rich to help reach those who are filthy rich and to support orphans? Can you do both?”
I think it’s great that God calls different churches to help on different levels. To be honest churches that are nasty rich sometimes bother me because you can tell they are doing nothing with their money. What are the proper fruits churches should be sowing and to what extent?
Also I think it’s true for most churches that when their beloved favorite pastor moves on so do they. I think it’s a bad move on the part of the people. Paul made a great argument against when people were fighting over who was better him or apollos (1 Corinthians 1).
Sadly some of our congregants come and worship the pastor and not Christ. It would be great it there was an easy button for it. haha
Haven’t seen any mega-churches around here lately (northern Wyoming) but would LOVE to get into one to speak for Compassion International! Ha!
Jordan.
Why would we bring a no name in here?
There are countless communicators who already preach on a weekly basis here.
Your lack of trust in our people is not surprising.
You don’t go here.
No one said God needed multi million dollar buildings to reach Bob.
I’m just saying that the same amount of energy needs to be given to Bob as the orphans.
I have an orphan in my family. He is my son.
I know the need.
And I feel zero illness that I work in this building.
I was homeless as a church staffer for 9 years.
I know both spectrums.
None is greater than the other no matter how romantic it seems.
God will use the people in this building for His glory and already has.
Just my thoughts.
of’course this is not really a typing type of conversation but alas, it’s a blog right?
“Honestly, you not only have musicians that “have heart” on stage, you now have musicians that can play their instruments well.”
Ok, it’s hard not to feel defensive on this one and you probably didn’t mean it the way I took it, but…none of my musicians are paid…95% of them play their instruments quite well.
Myth: Mega-Churches are built on a man. The main communicator.
Truth: I have not heard one baptism video on Sunday morning with the line “I accepted Andy Stanley into my heart and am telling the world I am living the rest of my life for him!”
Well, Well, Well. Here’s my .02CentS. I have a very good friend who attends Pastor Andy’s church because “HE’S A WONDERFUL SPEAKER”. Yeah, they are Christians in name but living a full Christian life – hardly. They live sorta far away from NP but insist on going on Sundays (occasionally when it’s convenient). They’ve been to a few other churches closer and have even fellowshipped at those churches but won’t commit because the other pastors “aren’t as engaging as Andy”.
Is that Andy Love instead of Jesus Love? Heck Yeah. I don’t blame AS & I”m almost sure that this family is secretly glad they don’t live close enough to feel the need to get involved with NP. I’m sure they also use the excuse that no-one else is as good as AS so they won’t get involved in another church. I mean, who can argue that the pastor of the 150 member church is as engaging as Andy to someone who uses that excuse?
So – bro can you do me a favor and tell AS to please tell people who aren’t involved in a local church to get involved in a local church and to crap or get off the pot…ie…find a church to be involved in.
We get to hear the sermon 1 or 2 times per week, the rest of the week we should be fellowship’n with other church members for ourselves and for them.
gheesh – it’s not rocket science.
@ Jordan
The multi-million dollar building thing used to bother me too. But then you hear about some of these mega-churches raising millions of dollars for the poor…or somebody in their congregation getting inspired and starting a non-profit that changes hundreds of thousands of lives…or the pastor writing books and giving tons of money away… God is using that specific community and everything that makes up that community (including the new building that needed to be built to house that community) for His glory.
And if a church is growing and they’re busting at the seams, what else are they supposed to do? Create a 7th service? Or turn people away? It doesn’t seem like a lot of these churches build a great building to “attract” people to their church. They seem to realize they need a new building. And then while they’re building something new, why not make it functional, nice, and comfortable.
I know of tiny, uber wealthy churches that have really swank facilities and they’re doing NOTHING for the Kingdom. I don’t think it’s the size that’s the issue.
I have to admit that I have believed these myths. I go to a pretty small church. Everyone knows your name and your kids names and we see each other often throughout the week…my church is big on relationships.
So I guess I didn’t completely understand how a mega church could create the same type of family interaction.
What has changed? I’ve been reading your blog for a while now! I see through your blogs how your church ministers to your family and other families…
Although I still don’t see myself attending a large church I appreciate their role in the Kingdom. Thanks for sharing your life Carlos.
You get 50 gold stars for this post.
Great post. Having worked at 2 mega churches and now attending one where my wife works these myths are so funny. Thanks for the blog.
Nice post. I totally agree with you. I do think every church, no matter the size, has it’s own gravitational pull to overcome (sort of the default tendency if things are left to themselves).
For a megachurch, I think the programs are so excellent that two things happen simultaneously:
1. People start coming through the doors who aren’t connected to anyone already there — which means if Bob, let’s say, comes to Christ, no one has a vested interest in his spiritual development. Enter the “discipleship program.” Which may work, to a point, but never better than good old fashioned Christ-centered relationships.
2. Instead of the program (say, a seeker service) serving the mission of the church, the program grows until it becomes the mission of the church. Instead of “a tool to help me reach my neighbors,” I become a tool in the hands of the seeker service. More and more money and people are used up keeping the thing going, almost for its own sake.
But no, saying big is bad is too simplistic. Keep writing!
Thank you. I needed to read this today. I’ve been struggling in having to find a new church home/family recently due to issues NOT having a bit to do with our wonderful, smaller, worship home – I’m my son’s forever (adoptive) mom, and his bio family has started attending, and my son is not comfortable. I have been very encouraged by a local mega (well, as close to mega as you can get in a smaller city like mine), but struggled with some of the very myths you pointed out. I feel much more peaceful now. Thanks again!
Interesting myth about paid musicians. We have amazing musicians in our mega church and none of them are paid. They used to be paid and only played sheet music. Now, everyone is a volunteer and the music is EXPLODING at our church.
I do believe the majority of the band and singers should be volunteers. Just my personal feeling.
Hummm,
Myth: You can’t find real relationships in a mega-church
Truth: You were not in my living room Sunday night with Heather, Zach, Meghan, and I.
No and neither were the bazillion other people that attend the main service. Your living room may contain a subset of Buckhead attendees, but it shifts the target from the mega-church as a whole to a personal group of friends. The issue is the main service, not the living rooms. If the living rooms are where ‘real relationships’ happen, why pour so much time, effort, and money into the ‘main service’?
Myth: Mega-Churches are too uptight with their money and should just give it all away.
Truth: Please find me the verse that says churches are supposed to be stupid with their money. I am more grateful than ever to have the financial teams we have at NPMI.
Ok, there is a verse that says we are to be stupid with our money. Stupid in the world’s eyes. Luke 12 anyone?
33 “Sell your possessions and give to those in need. This will store up treasure for you in heaven! And the purses of heaven never get old or develop holes. Your treasure will be safe; no thief can steal it and no moth can destroy it. 34 Wherever your treasure is, there the desires of your heart will also be.
Myth: Mega-Churches should spend their money rescuing orphans with all their dollars instead of building fancy buildings.
Truth: They should rescue orphans. They should also rescue Bob the 38 year old banker who lives off of Tower Place Drive in Buckhead.
I must ask, “Find me a verse that says build bigger and better.” Oh wait, the parable in Luke 12. You know:
16 Then [Jesus] told them a story: “A rich man had a fertile farm that produced fine crops. 17 He said to himself, ‘What should I do? I don’t have room for all my crops.’ 18 Then he said, ‘I know! I’ll tear down my barns and build bigger ones. Then I’ll have room enough to store all my wheat and other goods. 19 And I’ll sit back and say to myself, “My friend, you have enough stored away for years to come. Now take it easy! Eat, drink, and be merry!”’
20 “But God said to him, ‘You fool! You will die this very night. Then who will get everything you worked for?’
21 “Yes, a person is a fool to store up earthly wealth but not have a rich relationship with God.”
Jesus used a lot of references to farming when talking about people: Seeds and soil type, plentiful harvest and few workers, workers in the field being taken and others left. And when you look at the parable of the rich fool above and compare it to the mega-churches of today…bigger barns to store big harvests…
Just saying…
-mike
“Gangsta thoughts”…that totally made me smile!
woah nelly…
maybe is it a case of “different strokes for different folks.” I have attended a mega church, a 4 person home church, a very cool church of mainly people my age (25-30), a middle sized church and a church that met in an old library-very cool setting!
Right now, after a few years of spiritual apathy, i am figuring out what i believe again. I feel right at home with the mega church…i can go, learn, grow in my faith without anyone looking down upon me due to my doubts. Almost every week i email the main pastor with questions regarding the bible and his message that week, and within a day i have a personal, thoughtful, loving response in my inbox. He has given me his direct office number, as well as invited me to make a lunch appointment with him to discuss any questions i might have. I believe the big church’s care just as much about relationships as small churches do, they just use different avenues of going about them.
mike-i am going to have to ever so politely disagree with your comments about Luke 12. Unlike the rich man, mega-church’s aren’t sitting back, and saying “My friend, you have enough stored away for years to come. Now take it easy! Eat, drink, and be merry!” They are not in it just to collect the offerings, and build another gym or coffee shop on their campus. The main goal of any church is to reach people for Christ.
I doubt God cares if they do that in a huge campus in downtown ATL, a coffee shop in cleveland, or borrowed room in a old middle school. Jesus wants the big harvest, but i doubt he cares he cares about the size of the barn. Will Andy Stanly receive more treasures in heaven than the man who preaches the Word faithfully to a group of 100 that show up every Sunday? Doubtful-they are both building up the kingdom of God. They have the same goal in mind, they are just using different ministries to achieve it.
I think that a key teaching of Jesus was to meet people where they are at…jewishs scholars, fisherman, prostitutes, etc. People are going to feel at home in different “barns.” Different types of seeds need different types of soil, different ways of watering-but they all produce a plant.
I’m just sayin’
-megan
Good to know. And if my family ever ends up at a mega church, I’ll pick up the Bell glasses!
This staff member doesn’t have frosted hair!
Meg,
The issue isn’t the barn, it’s the continual rebuilding of the barn bigger and bigger.
You said, “Different types of seeds need different types of soil, different ways of watering-but they all produce a plant.”
Um, I’m just wondering if you have read the soil parable recently? You tread some interesting ground considering different seeds and soil and plants. I think Jesus was pretty clear about the soil types and the plant desired.
-mike
I have to trust in God that His will be done whether I agree with it or not. All leaders (believers or not) are appointed by God. I have submitted myself to the leaders of my church which is a megachurch despite my feelings towards megachurches.
I know what He has told me to do.
To God be the glory.
@myself
(Am I allowed to do that? I’ve been thinking about my comment since yesterday and I’d like to comment on my comment.) (Did I just commit a major blog faux pas?)
If the main communicator left my church and people started to leave because of it then so be it. God worked through him during his tenure and that’s great. And the people who dug in and found community there will most likely stay and get behind whatever new communicator was raised up from the community. And the people that were just going for the teaching will probably leave. But those people that were only going for the teaching most likely grew in their faith through the sermons – and that’s a good thing. Not ideal, but still a good thing.
All that to say I don’t think we need to worry about what’s better – small church, mega-church, local church, internet church… they all seem to have strengths and weaknesses (and everybody has a different experience/opinion with all of them). We should worry about what churches are building the Kingdom and what churches are just buildings.
i work in a mini-mega church(over 1000)…for our community’s size, a VERY large church.
one of the things i almost can’t believe when i read comments here is the argument that somehow, people attending a large church because that is where the teaching is the best, is a problem. How is it a problem that people want to go to a church where they are taught well? if someone actually can make that argument reasonably, please catch me up, because I just don’t see that being a problem.
What i would love to learn as a young pastor is the process that northpoint goes about in training up the great communicators from within, that they have in addition to andy (jeff h. and clay). I was at Drive and tried asking that in a break-out session and they didn’t know the answer.
My megachurch experience…
http://ronclick.wordpress.com/2007/12/25/an-ecclesiastical-journey/
Ron, I scanned your post on seeker targeted churches, especially megachurches. You said,
“Is not boasting of conversions and attendance a form of pride in self and methods?”
You may want to re-read the first couple of chapters of the book of Acts. Lots of numbers there, keeping track of how many disciples there were, how many got saved, how many were added, etc.
You are a man worthy of your hire!
Great Blog…I am glad I found this and will be back often!!
Be Inspired!
Hi Brad,
I appreciate your comments. First, please forgive any lack of clarity in my response. I am in a bit of a rush in composing this comment. Going to soon be away from a PC for the next few days….
That being said, remember that Jesus would draw large crowds to Himself, then say difficult things to find Himself with only His twelve… and one of them was a traitor. In the Gospel of John, He comments about the large crowd following Him and states, and I am paraphrasing, that He knows the heart of men and He does not trust them. Remember that Noah did not attract many, Jeramiah (sp?) did not attract any one, that God instructed Gideon to reduce his army from 20,000 (if memory serves) to 300 so that he would not be able to steal credit from God. Numbers is an inadequate benchmark. If a church grows to mega status, but it is compromised in focus, ecclesiology, or theology, then it is unhealthy. Nowhere in biblical canon is a church condemned or approved of for its size or lack thereof. Read about the seven churches in Revelation. The church at Laodecea was a large and wealthy……
One final note… is there sometimes a difference between simply recording numbers as in a narrative vs boasting in numbers? I could ramble ad nausea, but I gotta roll.
Thanks for letting me digress
Very interesting Dialogue.
I work in a support role at a MegaChurch, (not NorthPoint), our average weekly attendance is usually between 18-20,000. A few positives about a MegaChurch, 1. MegaChurches typically have the resources to do everything with excellence…as God deserves.
2. We have heard multiple stories of people who have entered and hid in the back, just to see what it was all about, or never even entered the Sanctuary, they watched the sermon remotely through the simulcast into the Coffee Shop and were reached just the same. The IMPORTANCE is in the message, our message each week is unashamedly straight out of the Bible, delivered by Men of God who happen to be very polished speakers.
3. Our programming and Worship is always TOP NOTCH, not to say the people are there to be entertained, but once again, it is all done with excellence.
4. Often people (naysayers) will look at a MegaChurch and think it’s all about money…through Mission work (Local, Nationally and Internationally) it would make your head spin to know how much money we give away on an annual basis. Everything I do is for an AUDIENCE of ONE!
@ jim: you comment: MegaChurches typically have the resources to do everything with excellence…as God deserves.
i personally think that it’s a problem when we (as a church) enter into worship trying “give” God something. This states that God doesn’t have enough already. We need to approach the presence of God with empty arms and allow him to satisfy our hearts with His glory.
We don’t need to give more…we need to receive more.
Your statement implies that churches that don’t have the “resources” as your 18K attendance church has have less to give God. I don’t want to serve a God that desires me to have enough to give.
We enter dangerous territory when we look to “give God what He deserves” in worship and not look to receive the grace He graciously extends.
Almost seems like ME-centered worship and not God-centered worship, “what can I give.”
Fun conversation going on here. My dad is the sr. pastor of a mini MegaChurch.
I think it is important to note that there aught not be a conflict between small vs. large church. The reality is that God has a calling for each church, both big and small. God needs both types of churches. Some people do not feel comfortable in large churches, and some do not feel comfortable in small churches. Growth, though, is vital. Making disciples is the church’s calling. There should be growth!
Naturally, some churches will be limited by circumstances in their growth. My dad’s first church was land locked and had a small worship center. Yet, in spite of that, he did what he could and the church grew from 20 to 250 over ten years. Was 250 our ceiling though? Perhaps, but the key with this church was that it was located in a very transient part of the country and our impact was on hundreds of people over the years, who would come only for a couple years before moving to other parts of the country. My dad’s ministries impact was in discipling people for the time they were with us, and then sending them out to make an impact across the country. The impact this church had was grander, numerically, than the surface revealed. Small churches can have mega impact.
Numbers are important. Reading the book of Acts, it seems odd behavior for the disciples to record that “3,000″ were saved today if numbers didn’t matter. The reality is that numbers do matter because of the people those numbers represent. Megachurches are accused of turning people into a number, I say they value the number because of what that number represents: saved people. That doesn’t mean that mega churches cannot become distracted by attendance. But lets not throw the baby out with the bath-water. Megachurches potential pitfalls does not invalidate the massive, numerical impact they have on society and the culture.
Large and small churches must work together to accomplish the goal of making disciples for Christ. Small churches must find and fill their nitch. Large churches must do the same, but at the same time, use their greater financial leverage to help initiate kingdom advancing missions by providing opportunities to the entire kingdom of God that would be inconceivable to a smaller organization.
God bless.
Jordan,
You beat me to the punch about mega-churches having the resources to do ‘everything in excellence’ as Jim states. I wonder if Mother Theresa knew that she was doing it all wrong and apparently not in excellence. You know, living in poverty and all.
I have to go back to another parable.
Luke 21:
1 While Jesus was in the Temple, he watched the rich people dropping their gifts in the collection box. 2 Then a poor widow came by and dropped in two small coins. 3 “I tell you the truth,” Jesus said, “this poor widow has given more than all the rest of them. 4 For they have given a tiny part of their surplus, but she, poor as she is, has given everything she has.”
-mike
Great post! Yeah, my church started out small and is now very large. Things may be done a bit differently now but your points hold true. Thanks for the post.
Nothing wrong with the size of any church as long as God’s glory is the focus and not mans felt needs.
lol, awesome: “…you now have musicians that can play their instruments well.” How true.
Buildings, Paid Clergy, “Tithing”, The old 3 songs and a sermon…………ALL Un-Biblical, These and other issues surrounding the “church” are Addressed in “Pagan Christianity?” by Frank Viola and George Barna……..It was a Paradigm shifting experience for me…….currently on a quest to stop “going to church” and starting to BE the CHURCH
Wow, what a discussion here.. there’s a whole book published about megachurch myths http://megachurchmyths.com/, titled “Beyond Megachurch Myths”, with researched data to backup what’s reality vs myth.
What’s interesting to see here is how many more comments you’ve single-handedly than the megachurch myths blog at http://lnbooks.typepad.com/beyond_megachurch_myths/