NOW. NOT LATER.
Barna states by the year 2010 over FIFTY MILLION AMERICANS will get rely on the internet for their religious experience.
Talk.
What does that mean for us?
Los
Barna states by the year 2010 over FIFTY MILLION AMERICANS will get rely on the internet for their religious experience.
Talk.
What does that mean for us?
Los
RAIN IT DOWN
1. We need to make small groups autonomous.
2. We need to think global not American.
3. We need to extend the essential ministry process online.
4. We need to decentralize communication. (personalized web experiences).
5. We need to have the mobile media / site figured out.
Oh, and I completely agree.
It means a lot… good and bad.
The short –
Good: people getting connected to Jesus that wouldn’t ‘normally’ go to church, etc., the ‘internet campus’ idea can get more popular
Bad: traditional sacraments could get lost, face to face human connections are gone fo sho, the convenience and consumerism mentality of christianity grows
We need to make sure the importance of relationship is stressed instead of how cool we are with technology.
I love the idea! Such a new way to reach people! I still have one struggle with the idea of it, which is the lack of full community and people growing together as they live life together. I know that some element of community and “doing life together” can happen online (such as the great community that you have grown here at Ragamuffin), but there is still some personal element that is missing.
Sometimes there’s nothing better than someone there to physically embrace you as you grow with Jesus.
I think it means good news. A lot of these people would never step into an actual church building but they are open to things spiritual.
It means we have got to figure out a way to use the two to work together.
That sounds exciting. More opportunities! Realizing how many people would never walk into a church, but would watch one online.
So then, we need to continue to be concerned with authenticity and community. Whether its online, in a building or in the streets, we are still the church, so we need to make it real.
It’s kind of scary because I can see how that could happen. With the price of gas (some people actually commute to go their home church) and with the anointed speakers who make their messages available online…
I think one of the reasons why online community is so popular as opposed to “real” relationships is the level of detachment you have. People can learn, grow, explore without judgment, stereotypes and pressure. They can also give back, passively, by building their own site for people to visit. It’s kind of like a virtual reality.
There have been tremendously good things that have come out of this online community, but deep down I can’t believe that anything can ever replace real relationships with real people that you can see, talk to, and hug.
It’s sad, but it’s starting to be the norm to be more involved in what’s happening online than what is happening in the lives of people you actually know and see everyday.
Maybe it’s a form of escapism. I don’t know what any of this means, all I know is, the trend I see that’s quickly becoming a reality, scares me. People need to figure out a way to build relationships with people they can actively invest into and not just passively observe from behind a monitor screen.
i’m wondering where that stat/prediction came from…
i think that’s an interesting prediction.
IF it comes true, i think it has some interesting implications for “church buildings.” does the church re-shape the building concept as a place for community and relationships to happen, instead of a service to happen? does there need to be a building at all?
one comment i find interesting is “we need to decentralize communication.” Is that ‘communication’ on behalf of a speaker, or communication between people? From my perspective, one of the best parts of the internet campus/worship experience is that “preaching/communicating” CAN be centralized. People are getting taught by the best communicators/teachers there are, and hopefully being connected with groups of people getting the same teaching and figuring out what it looks like to live that out as a group of Christ followers. Win-win.
I think 2050 may be a little soon. Being in a mid-size city in the south, I think we’re further than 40 years away from the internet campus being seen as a valid worship experience, but I’m interested to see how the internet campus plays out.
sorry, i read the quote wrong as 2050, instead of 2010. in that case, I see it as even less likely to happen that quickly.
I think this stat needs to be taken in context with Barna’s book REVOLUTION where he talks about the characteristics of people who are completely devoted followers of Jesus. Being a paid up member of a bricks and mortar church is not one of the attributes that he mentions. He does however talk about relationships and interaction with other believers.
A “valid worship experience” is ANY experience where the believer connects with God…whether that is in a private setting, with one or two trusted friends online or offline, or at a “church” (small c) is irrelevant.
Gen Y and the Mosaic generation connect and relate to each other in ways that are very different to those experienced by the boomers and even Gen X. To say that online connections aren’t as real as face to face ones is dangerous and erroneous (sure they have their own peculiar challenges, but what relationship doesn’t?). Did you watch that Mike Giglio sermon the other week that Los posted? The one about grace…Fruitcake and Icecream it was called…. The young lady in that story managed to form a deep relationship with him via CDs and email contact…they never met face to face. I believe that was a real experience for her, and it was plainly evident that it was a real experience for him too.
So…I guess the upshot is that this is a great opportunity to reach more people for Jesus…and it will be so much more important to be transparent and authentic in our approach because they can’t see us and read our body language or hear the nuances in our spoken word. Fake, fast-food, mass-produced online churches and “christians” will turn off a whole new generation of seekers, just as the in-the-flesh ones have in the past.
Viva la Revolution! Bring it on!
Afterthought…how do you suppose the “older” churches will cope as their membership drops off over time (ie less young ppl coming in)? Will they continue to measure their “success” by the bums-on-seats method? Or will they start to look at the spiritual health of their people?
sorry…Louie Giglio
(not Mike)
We may need to think through making our experiences to about 10 minutes.
With YouTube and others, I think our internet attention spans may shorten as technology progresses.
Through church history, Tech advancements have been used by the church for the Kingdom. But I see internet campus being more a piece of the strategy than a replacement.
I think the underlying question is: “Does physical gathering have anything to do with spiritual connection.”
I believe the answer to be a resounding yes.
It intrigues me to ponder what exaclty is meant by “religious experience.” does that mean they will only experience spiritual things online? That they will listen to podcasts of their pastor? Other pastors? That they will never meet face to face with other believers? I am going to step out on a limb here and say that a totally Internet-based church flies in the face of what a visible church is supposed to be, because it is not a place for gathering of Christians. I am fine with the Internet being a “parachurch” of sorts, in that it is a safe place to introduce people to Christ… but at some point they need to be “kicked out of the nest” and into true, face-to-face community.
To those that would argue that meeting together on the Internet is true community, I just think that I can be whoever I want to be on the Internet. There’s no accountability here, no way to really get into each other’s lives…
Bottom line, we can’t forsake meeting together, just like Hebrews says. The Internet needs to provide a safe “front porch” (yes I am proudly from the south) for people to check us out, hear the gospel, etc. But the internet can never become our living room.
I like what Andy had to say in the Series ‘On Location’ about being the Salt of the Earth. And I think that this extends to the so called Online Community; in that we as Christians need to make a presence there, make our comments there and provide a good example there. However there is a great danger of facing more stumbling blocks on the internet so we have to be watchful and accountable for where we go and what we do online.
Also with the popularity of the video Church and watching video sermons quiet often, the internet provides a brilliant spring board into millions of living rooms by means of podcasts etc. With the intent of not keeping them stuck at home but ultimately bringing them to a Church environment and then to a Community Group (an online stepping stone?).
This is what I had to say on my blog: http://synapticlight.wordpress.com/2008/08/07/the-church-and-social-networking/
it means you’ll get even more hits on your blog!
Sorry for my ignorance, but whose Barna?
I tend to agree with this.
Los can you give us a link or cite where you got this info. Would love to read more on it.
Yeah I get a lot of teaching from Newspring now. Would love to plug into my regular church more, but church relationships tend to be on the surface if not fake at times.
Los,
I think this is a great discussion. I am part of a ministry called Reaching the Online Generation. We face a lot of these questions/thoughts/objections everyday. I took the time to address some of the ones brought up on your blog on my website, http://www.reachingtheonlinegeneration.com. I linked the following post back to you and your blog, http://www.reachingtheonlinegeneration.com/2008/08/18/common-objections-to-online-spiritual-community/
Blessings,
-Paul.
Here is a link to a post with stats about the Online Generation: http://www.reachingtheonlinegeneration.com/2008/07/31/some-statistics-about-the-online-generation/
This includes US government stats and an article from Barna.
Blessings,
-Paul.
No more 6:30 a.m. rehearsals
We need better cameras.
Pretty simple to me…It means you better get a camera or two in your church.
I wish my church back home had some live streaming. I have watched a hundred online sermons, but as Dorothy said, there’s no place like home!
http://www.reson8.org if you’re reading…GET ON THIS!!
i want to say the same fears popped up when they started printing Bibles for the public. not sure. looking into it.
there’s something divine about the gathering of God’s people. we were created to connect with people. and loving my neighbor as myself happens best in that setting, not in a setting removed.
There’s a church in Jacksonville that’s encouraging individuals to start home churches as an extension of the main church. They’ve experimented with multiple campuses and that’s going fine, but that’s sort of hit it’s limit. I’m curious to see how this works out.
Our church in Orlando is on this. It’s called Northland: A Church Distributed and can be accessed at http://www.northlandchurch.net.
We moved into a new building last year that is completely wired (even in the classrooms and conference rooms) for live streaming to the internet. Each of our five services are live-streamed online, as well, with live chat and an online pastor available through the online interface during services as well. Community is really beginning to crop up among people who only attend through the online interface.
Keep in mind that these are not all local people who just couldn’t make it to church that day. These are people from ALL OVER THE WORLD. Every service, we acknowledge how many people in how many sites are logged on with us . . . from places like Afghanistan, Iraq, Latin America, the UK, and all 50 of the states.
We also upload all our children’s church materials for free downloading at http://www.childrensministrywarehouse.net.
Our thinking is that it’s a way for us to give freely out of our abundance. We have the resources for worship and teaching and materials that other people in other places don’t necessarily have. It ultimately can help reduce costs for smaller churches who can’t afford to hire full staff or purchase materials for their children’s church. It creates a way for people to form house churches all over the world and still receive great teaching and worship environment.
PS: This is my first time leaving a comment. Carlos, I first came to know who you were at Sandals Church back in the day (maybe 1999?). How crazy to find you here, online, almost 10 years after that. Thanks for what you brought to Sandals . . . always an incredible worship experience.
sure. why not? discipleship doesn’t have to be face to face. paul wrote a whole lot of letters that we still live by today. i think we put too much emphasis on sunday morning anyway. small groups are more “church” to me than sunday mornings will ever be.
Yikes. 50 million is a lot of folks.
Where does Barna give that stat?
I can’t ever imagine using the internet for church instead of going and listening to my pastor speak. I enjoy that much much more than anything on the internet. That’s sad and I hope not true. I can’t imagine a person having as much impact as a tangible one could.
I didn’t read ALL of the comments, but, I will say a few things. I believe it means we have to find a way to connect to the internet user. If they are having their religious experience online, that means that personal community could be lost. How do we make that not happen? There has to be a way for us to connect. These people will have their religious experience online, but they won’t always necessarily have a mentor whom they might need. They may not have that support when they find out their mother passes away. They may not have those friends who will be there in a single phone call. How can we make that happen via the internet.
This is wonderful and I think there is a lot of preparation to be done. But I also think we are on the right track.
Great stat.
I think this is pretty accurate for some people. For example, in our family, my husband is a beer drinker, we smoke cigarettes, we don’t go to “church”. We live in a small town and don’t want to be criticized or called hypocrites for our actions. At one point, the church kicked me out of the choir because we were living together and not married. It was so humiliating and we haven’t been back. We have since been married 18 years. That being said, I read this blog every day, sometimes two or three times a day. And then I share it with him. He gets interested in the funny things, we have fallen in love with Heather and Carlos’ kids and now trust Carlos. That has opened the door for me to share the real meaning of this website with him. I told Carlos a while back that this is our “church” and I thank God for it and for him!
Here is an interesting article from Erwin that speaks in the same arena. He points out a side of technology that I never really thought about, that it serves today great but might cost the future in other ways. If you are reading this blog post, then you’ll certainly want to read Erwin’s brief article.
http://www.collidemagazine.com/article/104/the-futurist
i think it means we’ll have even more fat, lazy people who won’t even leave their house for church
and it means it’ll be even harder to get people to invest in each other’s lives on a personal level.
Here is a slightly different spin, one that I must believe others experience as well.
I attend a really, REALLY great church here in MD. The worship is genuine, the pastor is engaging and the congregation is engaged. Yet, I often struggle with my church because my pastor doesn’t challenge me or inspire me as much as Andy Stanley, whose DVDs fill my bookshelf.
What was once a phenominal experience on a regular basis has now become “That was OK but it was no Andy Stanley sermon”.
***
Now, the flip-side. I have personally learned how to communicate better by listening to Andy Stanley on a regular basis (even though I’ve only been to North Point once in my life). I have applied MANY lessons I learned from Andy. Other people are selling their posessions and spending their vacations in Iraq and Nicaragua because of Andy’s teaching. Is Andy God??? Ha! Hardly. However, he does inspire me to dig deeper into God’s word and explore for myself.
That there’s gonna be a lot of bad theology floating around with very little means of checking it.
I think the Internet is great for expanding our knowledge and connecting with people on a surface level.But the richness of the Christian faith lies in the communal approach.It’s how Jesus lived. We should rethink how the local church looks but we absolutely shouldn’t substitute it for the Internet.
@ texas in Africa — that’s no different to hearing stuff in church in person
@ texas in Africa — that’s no different to hearing stuff in church in person.
The online approach does not exclude the communal aspect of being a follower of Jesus…it is a starting point, a connection point, a way to reach people. And for those of you who think that being online is a way to hide and not be real…again, taht’s no different to what’s going on in churches all around the world. I could count on one hand the people I know who are the same on Sundays as they are the rest of the week. Sad huh?
On second thought, I had a little more to say, so instead of putting a novel in your comment section, I blogged
http://www.trgckeathley.com/2008/08/20/the-megaonline-church/
I say spread the Word of God by any and all means necessary. Not everyone has the same schedule or access to church services. We need God anyway we can get Him. The unbeliever needs as many opportunities to come into contact with the gospel as there are avenues for this contact. We, the body of Christ, should be reaching out and utilizing all avenues of technology. We should really be ahead of the game with any new media or technology, etc. We should be forerunners in all arenas- after all, we were commissioned to go out into all the world. I’ve never heard it mentioned “how” to go. I am one that has been extremely blessed through both television and internet ministry. I can say through experience, there may be certain times in your life when that is the only avenue through which to be fed spiritually. I praise God for non-conventional means of ministry. I think the naysayers should pray about it and see where the Holy Spirit leads them on this subject. One thing I know, the Holy Spirit is a teacher and Love is a trailblazer! Be blessed!
Man I’ve been chomping at the bit to reply to this thread. I’ve got an idea which came from the shutting down of 7|22 which i hope will use the internet to help connect Christians and non-Christians etc together to help break down so many of the stereotypes we’ve built up over the years.
If you’ve got a min read my post and let me know what you think (good or bad)
Dan,
Missed seeing you at 7|22 but everyone told me that of all the messages for this series yours was the one i “had to watch”. So i finally got around to watching it and am in total awe. I’m right there with you and thankfully God has given me an idea to help with this “problem”.
I was keeping the idea quiet for so long but now i just have to share it. Please take a look and any insight you can offer (good and bad) will be welcomed!
http://www.jonese.us/post.cfm/church-sucks-but-i-have-an-idea
Thanks Los & keep on keeping on!!