Comments on: Ray Boltz Comes Out http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/09/ray-boltz-comes-out/ Carlos Whittaker's Weblog Fri, 19 Mar 2010 23:57:42 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: judy http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/09/ray-boltz-comes-out/#comment-305561 judy Wed, 21 Oct 2009 03:57:37 +0000 http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/?p=5815#comment-305561 why ray ? i don't understand. is the the price of losing your wife and children.for the love of a man going to be worth it" why ray ? i don’t understand. is the the price of losing your wife and children.for the love of a man going to be worth it”

]]> By: Maestro http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/09/ray-boltz-comes-out/#comment-298405 Maestro Sun, 20 Sep 2009 19:11:04 +0000 http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/?p=5815#comment-298405 I was stunned, but after reading his article I understood. I have been through that road as well. I know the freedom he talks of and I know the deeper love I have for God. My music is finally in my heart. I read a comment here that stated "I can smell the Judgementalism now" It is that reason that I stay to myself, even in the church I am attending and playing for. Christians here, most not all, tend to judge first then seek. I am not in a relationship but rather I have remained to myself. I will pray for Ray like Mike Warnke he has a LONG journey ahead because some Chrisitan can be the worst Judges. I was stunned, but after reading his article I understood. I have been through that road as well. I know the freedom he talks of and I know the deeper love I have for God. My music is finally in my heart. I read a comment here that stated “I can smell the Judgementalism now” It is that reason that I stay to myself, even in the church I am attending and playing for. Christians here, most not all, tend to judge first then seek. I am not in a relationship but rather I have remained to myself. I will pray for Ray like Mike Warnke he has a LONG journey ahead because some Chrisitan can be the worst Judges.

]]> By: kenwoodx2 http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/09/ray-boltz-comes-out/#comment-271949 kenwoodx2 Thu, 04 Jun 2009 04:43:22 +0000 http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/?p=5815#comment-271949 Having gay sex isn't a sin? Did someone rewrite the bible when I wasn't looking? Leviticus 18:22, part of the law given by God to Moses, states "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination" .. and Leviticus 20:13 says "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them" ... this sexual act can be found in the scripture between having sex with your mother-in-law and animals.. both of those I'm sure you'd agree on being detestable. but you're saying it's ok to have gay sex? I looked over the hebrew text for both of those passages, and unless you have some knowledge of hebrew that countless other scholars don't, you'll be hard pressed to convince me that God didn't make it pretty plain that it is a sin. Just because Jesus came and brought forth a covenant of grace, through which we can be redeemed and not live under the Jewish law, doesn't mean God changed his mind about what constitutes sin. Having gay sex isn't a sin? Did someone rewrite the bible when I wasn't looking? Leviticus 18:22, part of the law given by God to Moses, states "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination" .. and Leviticus 20:13 says "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them" … this sexual act can be found in the scripture between having sex with your mother-in-law and animals.. both of those I'm sure you'd agree on being detestable. but you're saying it's ok to have gay sex? I looked over the hebrew text for both of those passages, and unless you have some knowledge of hebrew that countless other scholars don't, you'll be hard pressed to convince me that God didn't make it pretty plain that it is a sin.

Just because Jesus came and brought forth a covenant of grace, through which we can be redeemed and not live under the Jewish law, doesn't mean God changed his mind about what constitutes sin.

]]> By: A Friend http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/09/ray-boltz-comes-out/#comment-234077 A Friend Mon, 22 Sep 2008 23:11:11 +0000 http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/?p=5815#comment-234077 Wait a minute-- The sin of "Bearing False Witness" is serious enough to be one of the Ten Commandments. There is no Commandment against homosexuality. Is not the sin of lying to his wife for the past thirty years (which breaks the Commandments) a greater sin than finally admitting to homosexuality? Wait a minute–

The sin of “Bearing False Witness” is serious enough to be one of the Ten Commandments. There is no Commandment against homosexuality.

Is not the sin of lying to his wife for the past thirty years (which breaks the Commandments) a greater sin than finally admitting to homosexuality?

]]> By: Jonathan http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/09/ray-boltz-comes-out/#comment-233053 Jonathan Sat, 20 Sep 2008 04:28:12 +0000 http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/?p=5815#comment-233053 Why can't we just call a sin a sin. Ray has ruined his reputation and witness. I hold nothing back with this. He needs prayer and needs to repent of this horrible sin. I am not politically correct and don't care to be. Not being rude, just honest. Scripture tells us right and wrong and the gay lifestyle is wrong. It is condemned over and over.(1 Cor. 6, Rom 1, Lev 18&20"it is an abomination") We don't make the moral rules, God does and He describes clearly what homosexuality is. I am not judging just stating fact. If people don't like it, take it up with God. Pray about it and He will open your eyes that have been clouded over by society and the "god" of this world. Why can’t we just call a sin a sin. Ray has ruined his reputation and witness. I hold nothing back with this. He needs prayer and needs to repent of this horrible sin. I am not politically correct and don’t care to be. Not being rude, just honest. Scripture tells us right and wrong and the gay lifestyle is wrong. It is condemned over and over.(1 Cor. 6, Rom 1, Lev 18&20″it is an abomination”) We don’t make the moral rules, God does and He describes clearly what homosexuality is. I am not judging just stating fact. If people don’t like it, take it up with God. Pray about it and He will open your eyes that have been clouded over by society and the “god” of this world.

]]> By: AJ http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/09/ray-boltz-comes-out/#comment-232959 AJ Sat, 20 Sep 2008 01:25:14 +0000 http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/?p=5815#comment-232959 @David: You need to tone it down. Chose your words and tone carefully because it comes across hateful with such a sensative subject. Just say'n. @David:

You need to tone it down. Chose your words and tone carefully because it comes across hateful with such a sensative subject. Just say’n.

]]> By: David http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/09/ray-boltz-comes-out/#comment-232826 David Fri, 19 Sep 2008 16:02:44 +0000 http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/?p=5815#comment-232826 You know, I'm a little tired of so many people making accusations of "judging" because of those who say that homosexuality is a sin. Judging is making your own call on something. If I was walking down the street and saw a guy with a pink t-shirt and said, "Oh, he's homosexual," then that would be judging because I really don't know. But stating what the Bible says about homosexuality (that it's bad) isn't judging-it's just repeating God's opinion, which is the only one that matters. On top of that, the Bible says that God "desires truth in the inward parts." God wants not just the outside sins (the actions) dealt with, but the inside (desires, cravings), too. He wants to set us all straight with whatever sins we struggle with. You know, I’m a little tired of so many people making accusations of “judging” because of those who say that homosexuality is a sin. Judging is making your own call on something. If I was walking down the street and saw a guy with a pink t-shirt and said, “Oh, he’s homosexual,” then that would be judging because I really don’t know. But stating what the Bible says about homosexuality (that it’s bad) isn’t judging-it’s just repeating God’s opinion, which is the only one that matters. On top of that, the Bible says that God “desires truth in the inward parts.” God wants not just the outside sins (the actions) dealt with, but the inside (desires, cravings), too. He wants to set us all straight with whatever sins we struggle with.

]]> By: Dave Miers http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/09/ray-boltz-comes-out/#comment-232571 Dave Miers Thu, 18 Sep 2008 21:59:23 +0000 http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/?p=5815#comment-232571 http://www.gregstier.org/rants/ray-gay-say-it-isnt-so http://www.gregstier.org/rants/ray-gay-say-it-isnt-so

]]> By: carie http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/09/ray-boltz-comes-out/#comment-232377 carie Thu, 18 Sep 2008 07:22:20 +0000 http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/?p=5815#comment-232377 I really enjoy your postings, Aaron. Don't worry about the length, b/c you write really great, interesting stuff! :) I really enjoy your postings, Aaron. Don’t worry about the length, b/c you write really great, interesting stuff! :)

]]> By: Aaron http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/09/ray-boltz-comes-out/#comment-232183 Aaron Wed, 17 Sep 2008 22:06:40 +0000 http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/?p=5815#comment-232183 @Ashley "My comment previously about our generation wallowing in “cheap grace” is that we have cheapened grace. We have taken the notion that just because it is “free” it gives us license to sin and that makes it okay." The truth is that we as humans have no power to cheapen grace. How can we cheapen such an amazing act by Jesus? We just can't cheapen that... he died for us knowing that we were all filthy sinners and that we would continue to be so until called to heaven at the end. I never meant that Jesus did not pay a hefty price for the grace that is free to us... quite the opposite, meaning that he paid a price that only he could pay because he knew that we would never be able to add up enough to make the payment ourselves. Further, Jesus came to set us free and to give us freedom. Free means free! Therefore, I do believe that we are free to continue sinning or not sinning (which I wish I could master!). However, I do not think it is ok to sin, as sin is sin and therefore never ok. However, we are free to turn to Christ in a situation or not. We are free to trust him in every area of our every day or not. I do not think we have a license to sin without consequence. There are always consequences for what we do... however, after becoming a christian if you should continue to sin one of the consequences that you may face IS NOT LOSING THE LOVE OF GOD OR THE GIFT OF HIS GRACE. Will there be other consequences... oh goodness YES... and I wish I were not living with them every day. Regardless, I am still experiencing his love and grace admidst my consequences. The beauty about Jesus and his death on the cross is that he did it knowing full well what you and I were like before salvation and even how we would be after salvation. He did not do it because he thought that if he did we would stop sinning and be perfect... he knew that would never happen! Now... to follow up on my comment that if we are free in Christ, then we are free to either sin or not to sin... I want to clarify a bit. I do believe that when a person truly encounters such a love that will continue even if they sin that they will begin to change and so will the actions, the notion of producing fruit. However, the change does not come because of mastering sin and never sinning again but rather the change comes in the heart and how we begin to relate to God. I truly believe that our Christian walks are so much more about our hearts and our daily relationship with God rather than about our actions and our sin. Our hearts and relationship with God are a work in progress. My counselor often states to me "Aaron, we are looking for progress not perfection during this life... as perfection will only come in death when we go meet our Saviour!" That line has freed me up so much from the trappings of religion and trying to earn favor in God eyes... that I can finally talk with God and relate with him instead of hiding from him in fear as though he were a task-master keeping a list and checking it twice... Praise JESUS that he is GOD and not Santa! Cause if he were like Santa... not only would I not have presents under the tree, I would not even have a dang tree! Ok so apparently I cannot write a short post... sorry! But this all means so much to me... cause only over the past year have I begun to experience freedom and grace. And I hate that I lost so much time along the way because of good-intentioned people telling me to quit sinning or else God will get me and remove the blessing from me.... Oh wow... which brings up a whole other subject... blessings are not things we earn... cause if they were we would never get any! Blessings are what God gives to us inspite of us never being able to earn them... hence the reason they are blessings and not wages earned from good works. Ok for real sorry... I am done! I need to take a breath! Ha ha ha @Ashley

“My comment previously about our generation wallowing in “cheap grace” is that we have cheapened grace. We have taken the notion that just because it is “free” it gives us license to sin and that makes it okay.”

The truth is that we as humans have no power to cheapen grace. How can we cheapen such an amazing act by Jesus? We just can’t cheapen that… he died for us knowing that we were all filthy sinners and that we would continue to be so until called to heaven at the end.

I never meant that Jesus did not pay a hefty price for the grace that is free to us… quite the opposite, meaning that he paid a price that only he could pay because he knew that we would never be able to add up enough to make the payment ourselves.

Further, Jesus came to set us free and to give us freedom. Free means free! Therefore, I do believe that we are free to continue sinning or not sinning (which I wish I could master!). However, I do not think it is ok to sin, as sin is sin and therefore never ok. However, we are free to turn to Christ in a situation or not. We are free to trust him in every area of our every day or not. I do not think we have a license to sin without consequence. There are always consequences for what we do… however, after becoming a christian if you should continue to sin one of the consequences that you may face IS NOT LOSING THE LOVE OF GOD OR THE GIFT OF HIS GRACE. Will there be other consequences… oh goodness YES… and I wish I were not living with them every day. Regardless, I am still experiencing his love and grace admidst my consequences.

The beauty about Jesus and his death on the cross is that he did it knowing full well what you and I were like before salvation and even how we would be after salvation. He did not do it because he thought that if he did we would stop sinning and be perfect… he knew that would never happen!

Now… to follow up on my comment that if we are free in Christ, then we are free to either sin or not to sin… I want to clarify a bit. I do believe that when a person truly encounters such a love that will continue even if they sin that they will begin to change and so will the actions, the notion of producing fruit. However, the change does not come because of mastering sin and never sinning again but rather the change comes in the heart and how we begin to relate to God.

I truly believe that our Christian walks are so much more about our hearts and our daily relationship with God rather than about our actions and our sin. Our hearts and relationship with God are a work in progress.

My counselor often states to me “Aaron, we are looking for progress not perfection during this life… as perfection will only come in death when we go meet our Saviour!” That line has freed me up so much from the trappings of religion and trying to earn favor in God eyes… that I can finally talk with God and relate with him instead of hiding from him in fear as though he were a task-master keeping a list and checking it twice… Praise JESUS that he is GOD and not Santa! Cause if he were like Santa… not only would I not have presents under the tree, I would not even have a dang tree!

Ok so apparently I cannot write a short post… sorry! But this all means so much to me… cause only over the past year have I begun to experience freedom and grace. And I hate that I lost so much time along the way because of good-intentioned people telling me to quit sinning or else God will get me and remove the blessing from me…. Oh wow… which brings up a whole other subject… blessings are not things we earn… cause if they were we would never get any! Blessings are what God gives to us inspite of us never being able to earn them… hence the reason they are blessings and not wages earned from good works.

Ok for real sorry… I am done! I need to take a breath! Ha ha ha

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