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	<title>Comments on: Dear Church Member,</title>
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	<link>http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/11/dear-church-member/</link>
	<description>Carlos Whittaker&#039;s Weblog</description>
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		<title>By: loswhit</title>
		<link>http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/11/dear-church-member/#comment-285089</link>
		<dc:creator>loswhit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 04:08:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/?p=6155#comment-285089</guid>
		<description>or lead your unsaved friends to Christ and quit blaming them going to hell on the church. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>or lead your unsaved friends to Christ and quit blaming them going to hell on the church.</p>
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		<title>By: guesst</title>
		<link>http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/11/dear-church-member/#comment-284770</link>
		<dc:creator>guesst</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 04:56:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/?p=6155#comment-284770</guid>
		<description>After dozens of years in the church, this article finally made me understand why I can&#039;t get my unsaved friends into the church. They find God outside church, or at the altar call and then run away before they can become thoroughly disallusioned. God apparently thought it was about me, because He died for me- if it wasn&#039;t about me He would have made me an automaton, to serve Him perfectly every time. 
 
The large number of favorable comments and links to this article prove one thing: the established church is full of and run by the arrogant, and God opposes them. Good work guys, keep scaring away my unsaved friends straight into hell. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After dozens of years in the church, this article finally made me understand why I can&#039;t get my unsaved friends into the church. They find God outside church, or at the altar call and then run away before they can become thoroughly disallusioned. God apparently thought it was about me, because He died for me- if it wasn&#039;t about me He would have made me an automaton, to serve Him perfectly every time. </p>
<p>The large number of favorable comments and links to this article prove one thing: the established church is full of and run by the arrogant, and God opposes them. Good work guys, keep scaring away my unsaved friends straight into hell.</p>
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		<title>By: loswhit</title>
		<link>http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/11/dear-church-member/#comment-249753</link>
		<dc:creator>loswhit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 06:07:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/?p=6155#comment-249753</guid>
		<description>test</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>test</p>
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		<title>By: - Sarah :-)</title>
		<link>http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/11/dear-church-member/#comment-249557</link>
		<dc:creator>- Sarah :-)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 22:15:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/?p=6155#comment-249557</guid>
		<description>Wow - I read this and the linked post.  Totally made me stop and re-think how I &quot;follow my leader&quot;, and if I do at all.  And when I&#039;m the leader, if I&#039;m really leading them to a place, or just showing them what it&#039;s like when they find their way on their own... am I truly leading, or just showing them how it&#039;s supposed to look?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Hmm...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow &#8211; I read this and the linked post.  Totally made me stop and re-think how I &#8220;follow my leader&#8221;, and if I do at all.  And when I&#39;m the leader, if I&#39;m really leading them to a place, or just showing them what it&#39;s like when they find their way on their own&#8230; am I truly leading, or just showing them how it&#39;s supposed to look?</p>
<p>Hmm&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: - Sarah :-)</title>
		<link>http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/11/dear-church-member/#comment-249529</link>
		<dc:creator>- Sarah :-)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:15:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/?p=6155#comment-249529</guid>
		<description>Wow - I read this and the linked post.  Totally made me stop and re-think how I &quot;follow my leader&quot;, and if I do at all.  And when I&#039;m the leader, if I&#039;m really leading them to a place, or just showing them what it&#039;s like when they find their way on their own... am I truly leading, or just showing them how it&#039;s supposed to look?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Hmm...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow &#8211; I read this and the linked post.  Totally made me stop and re-think how I &#8220;follow my leader&#8221;, and if I do at all.  And when I&#39;m the leader, if I&#39;m really leading them to a place, or just showing them what it&#39;s like when they find their way on their own&#8230; am I truly leading, or just showing them how it&#39;s supposed to look?</p>
<p>Hmm&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: William Guice</title>
		<link>http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/11/dear-church-member/#comment-249518</link>
		<dc:creator>William Guice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 01:55:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/?p=6155#comment-249518</guid>
		<description>You know it is hard to knock people for expecting Miley &amp; the Jonas Brothers when everything in the room screams Miley &amp; the Jonas Brothers.  I&#039;m not quite sure this is fair.  When everything on stage screams, &quot;Look at &amp; listen to me!&quot; Then that&#039;s what people do and they make judgments.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;A person doesn&#039;t gain the right to be followed just because they are on stage and have a mic.  That is earned in other spaces and leveraged when that leader stands before people.  Even if you take the &quot;called&quot; angle, have you clearly communicated that to the crowd.  That everyone on stage is &quot;called&quot; by Yahweh himself to lead you in worship.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;You know, I can take my children into Chick Fil-A and tell them that it&#039;s Burger King.  I can even buy off the workers and get them to tell my children that it is Burger King, but they know by looking at the room, the menu, the bags, what&#039;s on people&#039;s trays and numerous other things where they are.  It doesn&#039;t matter what I say, they will make judgments based on what they see, hear and in this case smell and maybe if i&#039;m generous in my little story, taste.  The setting is what it is and people pick up on it.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I love dreaming and love production and long for more and better creative moments that draw people close and communicate the story of God well.  But I think we need to be careful how we (those of us who stand before people and those who plan gatherings) evaluate those we lead and our leadership.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;ve found a couple of leadership axioms to be true:  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;1) every group becomes its leader, and &lt;br&gt;2) your system is set up perfectly to give you the result that you are getting.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;So...if this is what we are getting from the crowd maybe just maybe we need to examine what is before them...what is engaging them....how we are leading them.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Just a couple of thoughts...&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Peace ~</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know it is hard to knock people for expecting Miley &#038; the Jonas Brothers when everything in the room screams Miley &#038; the Jonas Brothers.  I&#39;m not quite sure this is fair.  When everything on stage screams, &#8220;Look at &#038; listen to me!&#8221; Then that&#39;s what people do and they make judgments.</p>
<p>A person doesn&#39;t gain the right to be followed just because they are on stage and have a mic.  That is earned in other spaces and leveraged when that leader stands before people.  Even if you take the &#8220;called&#8221; angle, have you clearly communicated that to the crowd.  That everyone on stage is &#8220;called&#8221; by Yahweh himself to lead you in worship.  </p>
<p>You know, I can take my children into Chick Fil-A and tell them that it&#39;s Burger King.  I can even buy off the workers and get them to tell my children that it is Burger King, but they know by looking at the room, the menu, the bags, what&#39;s on people&#39;s trays and numerous other things where they are.  It doesn&#39;t matter what I say, they will make judgments based on what they see, hear and in this case smell and maybe if i&#39;m generous in my little story, taste.  The setting is what it is and people pick up on it.</p>
<p>I love dreaming and love production and long for more and better creative moments that draw people close and communicate the story of God well.  But I think we need to be careful how we (those of us who stand before people and those who plan gatherings) evaluate those we lead and our leadership.  </p>
<p>I&#39;ve found a couple of leadership axioms to be true:  </p>
<p>1) every group becomes its leader, and <br />2) your system is set up perfectly to give you the result that you are getting.</p>
<p>So&#8230;if this is what we are getting from the crowd maybe just maybe we need to examine what is before them&#8230;what is engaging them&#8230;.how we are leading them.</p>
<p>Just a couple of thoughts&#8230;</p>
<p>Peace ~</p>
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		<title>By: loswhit</title>
		<link>http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/11/dear-church-member/#comment-249515</link>
		<dc:creator>loswhit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 01:19:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/?p=6155#comment-249515</guid>
		<description>Obedience is a bitch.  Trust me.  I know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obedience is a bitch.  Trust me.  I know.</p>
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		<title>By: Rhi</title>
		<link>http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/11/dear-church-member/#comment-249511</link>
		<dc:creator>Rhi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 00:44:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/?p=6155#comment-249511</guid>
		<description>PREACH!!! Tell it Carlos.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PREACH!!! Tell it Carlos.</p>
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		<title>By: Shifty</title>
		<link>http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/11/dear-church-member/#comment-249510</link>
		<dc:creator>Shifty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 00:27:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/?p=6155#comment-249510</guid>
		<description>Man - I read this one on ym phone and was coming here to write ALMOST EXACTLY what John wrote.  How crazy...&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Except I would have changed the last line to:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;So stop staring at yourself on the giant projection screen and start leading.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I feel - that like a lot of secular performers (and you leaders ARE performing) that a lot of worship leaders get in to it for that same reason - that feeling of adoration or having a following.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And why should I have to &quot;follow&quot; you anyways?  What if I connect with God more on a run in the woods than I do by lifting my arms up in corporate worship?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I don&#039;t command the trees and birds and squirrels to run with me in the woods - and neither should a good worship leader command his &quot;followers&quot; (hate hate hate that term) to do as he does. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;For all that leader knows they may be having the most connected moment with God they have ever had - sitting in their chair, arms at their side, mouthing the words.  Not clapping.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Fun stuff to pick apart - Los always knows what makes for a good post...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Man &#8211; I read this one on ym phone and was coming here to write ALMOST EXACTLY what John wrote.  How crazy&#8230;</p>
<p>Except I would have changed the last line to:</p>
<p>&#8220;So stop staring at yourself on the giant projection screen and start leading.&#8221;</p>
<p>I feel &#8211; that like a lot of secular performers (and you leaders ARE performing) that a lot of worship leaders get in to it for that same reason &#8211; that feeling of adoration or having a following.  </p>
<p>And why should I have to &#8220;follow&#8221; you anyways?  What if I connect with God more on a run in the woods than I do by lifting my arms up in corporate worship?</p>
<p>I don&#39;t command the trees and birds and squirrels to run with me in the woods &#8211; and neither should a good worship leader command his &#8220;followers&#8221; (hate hate hate that term) to do as he does. </p>
<p>For all that leader knows they may be having the most connected moment with God they have ever had &#8211; sitting in their chair, arms at their side, mouthing the words.  Not clapping.</p>
<p>Fun stuff to pick apart &#8211; Los always knows what makes for a good post&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: loswhit</title>
		<link>http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/11/dear-church-member/#comment-249505</link>
		<dc:creator>loswhit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 22:40:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/?p=6155#comment-249505</guid>
		<description>Beauty&lt;br&gt;???????????????????????-&lt;br&gt;Q: Why is this email 3 sentences or less?&lt;br&gt;A: &lt;a href=&quot;http://three.sentenc.es&quot;&gt;http://three.sentenc.es&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Carlos Whittaker&lt;br&gt;What&#039;s in my dome?&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com&quot;&gt;www.ragamuffinsoul.com&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Beauty<br />???????????????????????-<br />Q: Why is this email 3 sentences or less?<br />A: <a href="http://three.sentenc.es">http://three.sentenc.es</a></p>
<p>Carlos Whittaker<br />What&#39;s in my dome?<br /><a href="http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com">http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com</a></p>
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