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	<title>Comments on: Before You Know It //  It WIll Be Us</title>
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	<link>http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/12/before-you-know-it-it-will-be-us/</link>
	<description>Carlos Whittaker's Weblog</description>
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		<title>By: fermin whittaker</title>
		<link>http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/12/before-you-know-it-it-will-be-us/#comment-251189</link>
		<dc:creator>fermin whittaker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:51:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/12/before-you-know-it-it-will-be-us/#comment-251189</guid>
		<description>Mark,&lt;br&gt;Thanks for the news about Redeemers. Can you share some of the things you are doing? Although I am not a pastor at the moment, yet I serve as the ExDir for California Southern Baptist Convention, 2400 churches preaching in 77 languages on Sunday. Many of our congregations are dealing with the issue of reaching senior adults, and it is not always about music or worship styles. God bless...ps...I am Carlos&#039; dad...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark,<br />Thanks for the news about Redeemers. Can you share some of the things you are doing? Although I am not a pastor at the moment, yet I serve as the ExDir for California Southern Baptist Convention, 2400 churches preaching in 77 languages on Sunday. Many of our congregations are dealing with the issue of reaching senior adults, and it is not always about music or worship styles. God bless&#8230;ps&#8230;I am Carlos&#39; dad&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: AnnieLaurie</title>
		<link>http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/12/before-you-know-it-it-will-be-us/#comment-251116</link>
		<dc:creator>AnnieLaurie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 22:23:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/12/before-you-know-it-it-will-be-us/#comment-251116</guid>
		<description>my inlaws live in aiken, sc (small town fo sho) and attend a non-denom church.  they are retired, and live in a golf community with alot of other retired people.  the crazy thing is that 2 years ago my faither in law was saved by Jesus and started telling all the other retired people about Jesus. Then he started inviting them all to church.  2 Christmases ago we had 2 rows full of 60+ in the front section of this cool nondenom rockin out to the Lord.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Sadly my father in law passed away(cancer) last year.  But the 60+ crowd is still going to the hip nondenom church.  Last time I was down there I was at a party where everyone there was 60+ except me and my husband and one of the hot topics of conversation was getting baptized.  several of these were going to be baptized the next weekend and were talking about why they were doing it despite having been sprinkled before or baptized as a baby.  it was really cool to watch God work in these conversations.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;i dont know if this is relative, but in any event, i think its neat how the holy spirit is moving in a retirement community in a small town and they all go to a hip non-denom church!  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;food for thought!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>my inlaws live in aiken, sc (small town fo sho) and attend a non-denom church.  they are retired, and live in a golf community with alot of other retired people.  the crazy thing is that 2 years ago my faither in law was saved by Jesus and started telling all the other retired people about Jesus. Then he started inviting them all to church.  2 Christmases ago we had 2 rows full of 60+ in the front section of this cool nondenom rockin out to the Lord.  </p>
<p>Sadly my father in law passed away(cancer) last year.  But the 60+ crowd is still going to the hip nondenom church.  Last time I was down there I was at a party where everyone there was 60+ except me and my husband and one of the hot topics of conversation was getting baptized.  several of these were going to be baptized the next weekend and were talking about why they were doing it despite having been sprinkled before or baptized as a baby.  it was really cool to watch God work in these conversations.  </p>
<p>i dont know if this is relative, but in any event, i think its neat how the holy spirit is moving in a retirement community in a small town and they all go to a hip non-denom church!  </p>
<p>food for thought!</p>
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		<title>By: Elizabeth</title>
		<link>http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/12/before-you-know-it-it-will-be-us/#comment-251000</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 01:48:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/12/before-you-know-it-it-will-be-us/#comment-251000</guid>
		<description>I wonder about this as well.  Statistically, more people turn 60 everyday than are born. What would it look like if we spent as much time, effort, and money reaching the boomers as we do on reaching the babies?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder about this as well.  Statistically, more people turn 60 everyday than are born. What would it look like if we spent as much time, effort, and money reaching the boomers as we do on reaching the babies?</p>
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		<title>By: haemin</title>
		<link>http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/12/before-you-know-it-it-will-be-us/#comment-250974</link>
		<dc:creator>haemin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 23:18:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/12/before-you-know-it-it-will-be-us/#comment-250974</guid>
		<description>This is a great question and our church is trying to figure out the solution too. We&#039;re at a crossroad right now b/c our church was founded by the older generation but we recognize the need to reach the &quot;next gen.&quot; Some of the older gen are on board, and some are not. especially when it comes to worship music style. We actually had a debate about the music volume &amp; style on sundays which really upset people on both sides of the issue.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;All that to say: I don&#039;t know what the solution is, but I recognize there is a problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a great question and our church is trying to figure out the solution too. We&#39;re at a crossroad right now b/c our church was founded by the older generation but we recognize the need to reach the &#8220;next gen.&#8221; Some of the older gen are on board, and some are not. especially when it comes to worship music style. We actually had a debate about the music volume &#038; style on sundays which really upset people on both sides of the issue.</p>
<p>All that to say: I don&#39;t know what the solution is, but I recognize there is a problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Bullock</title>
		<link>http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/12/before-you-know-it-it-will-be-us/#comment-250973</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Bullock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 23:18:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/12/before-you-know-it-it-will-be-us/#comment-250973</guid>
		<description>I agree with the shared comments regarding senior adults in our churches.  My postion as Minister of Membership Care puts me into contact with hundreds of seniors.  Some have not been happy with our current direction and have gone elsewhere.  Others have settled in and although they are not happy, this is their church and they are not leaving.  Our traditional service allows them to join with 300-400 others weekly in worship, our senior level classes are still alive (they shepherd their members with great love), many seniors volunteer weekly in some fashion (our goal is for all of them to serve),  trips and luncheons are held regularly (I&#039;m still in youth ministry, but my kids are older), and our seniors are some of our most faithful with their stewardship.  I love our senior members and can&#039;t believe that I&#039;ll be 60 next November.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with the shared comments regarding senior adults in our churches.  My postion as Minister of Membership Care puts me into contact with hundreds of seniors.  Some have not been happy with our current direction and have gone elsewhere.  Others have settled in and although they are not happy, this is their church and they are not leaving.  Our traditional service allows them to join with 300-400 others weekly in worship, our senior level classes are still alive (they shepherd their members with great love), many seniors volunteer weekly in some fashion (our goal is for all of them to serve),  trips and luncheons are held regularly (I&#39;m still in youth ministry, but my kids are older), and our seniors are some of our most faithful with their stewardship.  I love our senior members and can&#39;t believe that I&#39;ll be 60 next November.</p>
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		<title>By: Jan Owen</title>
		<link>http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/12/before-you-know-it-it-will-be-us/#comment-250944</link>
		<dc:creator>Jan Owen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 10:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/12/before-you-know-it-it-will-be-us/#comment-250944</guid>
		<description>I actually have felt a little prejudice already as a 43 year old worship leader in a contemporary setting. I had a younger leader ask me while at a conference &quot;Aren&#039;t you too old to be a worship leader?&quot; and that floored me. I pastor my team and hope my experience and maturity in faith is a plus, not a minus. So I can get a glimpse of what your dad is alluding to. I wonder how much longer I will be able to lead worship. I&#039;m already TOO OLD to be hired by most churches that are hiring, experience doesn&#039;t matter if you&#039;re looking for a 25 year old guy with a guitar. It is sobering.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Things change so quickly now, much more quickly than at any time in history. It can make you feel like there is nothing familiar and comfortable and simple and that your experience and pain and growth in life is not a pro, but a con.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;d personally love to learn from your dad and others like him. I miss that in my setting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I actually have felt a little prejudice already as a 43 year old worship leader in a contemporary setting. I had a younger leader ask me while at a conference &#8220;Aren&#39;t you too old to be a worship leader?&#8221; and that floored me. I pastor my team and hope my experience and maturity in faith is a plus, not a minus. So I can get a glimpse of what your dad is alluding to. I wonder how much longer I will be able to lead worship. I&#39;m already TOO OLD to be hired by most churches that are hiring, experience doesn&#39;t matter if you&#39;re looking for a 25 year old guy with a guitar. It is sobering.</p>
<p>Things change so quickly now, much more quickly than at any time in history. It can make you feel like there is nothing familiar and comfortable and simple and that your experience and pain and growth in life is not a pro, but a con.</p>
<p>I&#39;d personally love to learn from your dad and others like him. I miss that in my setting.</p>
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		<title>By: Joanne</title>
		<link>http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/12/before-you-know-it-it-will-be-us/#comment-250941</link>
		<dc:creator>Joanne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 09:47:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/12/before-you-know-it-it-will-be-us/#comment-250941</guid>
		<description>We left our church recently (not because of the worship but because we just felt the direction of the church is going one way and God is telling us He wants us somewhere else to serve and worship right now. I will admit though, that we didn&#039;t like the worship at all the last few years,  and although it&#039;s a very well known and popular church in So Cal (and an awesome teaching pastor), the worship really took a turn in recent years and not in a good way in my opinion.  It has really focused on very contemporary music (contemporary music is great is great, but there was one theme every week it seemed), no praise music (everything very slow, contemplative and while those are good to have, it just got tiresome to have this every week, every song).  and was not really &quot;congregation friendly&quot; in that the types of songs chosen were complicated musically (I used to sing in choirs and in worship bands) and geared for soloists. The worship leader stands on stage, and if you looked around no one in the congregation is singing. Solo songs are really fine, don&#039;t get me wrong, but this is what is brought for the congregational worship, so it would be expected (hoped) that the congregation would also participate    And to us, that was our concern, because it wasn&#039;t about leading worship anymore it was about an individual&#039;s performance.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;We&#039;ve visited a few new churches and found one church&#039;s worship kind of refreshing.  It&#039;s a smaller church, and only about max 20 people in the choir. The associate pastor is also the worship leader.  Not the best musicians or singers, but the real difference is that it was so very clear that they were truly worshiping from the heart . And while there were only 2-3 people on a worship team while the choir wasn&#039;t singing, the ENTIRE congregation signs and the music and worship totally fill the place.  They have music for all the generations-- the incorporate hymms among contemporary selections (although they are often songs we may have heard a couple of years ago), upbeat praise music and quiet contemplative songs too.  It&#039;s something for everyone, and everyone participates. Also, 15 minutes prior to service, everyone is invited to the sanctuary to sing the old hymns and I saw many seniors do this too. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I think it&#039;s good to be seeker senstive when planning the worship-- think about the generations that the congregation is representing, think about people in various stations in life, think about a person of any age coming to church for the very first time. How do we want to prepare hearts for the message? For some, worship/music, etc. isn&#039;t all that important,they are just ready to dive into the Word, and that&#039;s awesome. For me, I have so much going on the entire week, a lot of stress and distractions,and for me worship really helps me to slow down, focus, and prepare my heart to hear the Word.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We left our church recently (not because of the worship but because we just felt the direction of the church is going one way and God is telling us He wants us somewhere else to serve and worship right now. I will admit though, that we didn&#39;t like the worship at all the last few years,  and although it&#39;s a very well known and popular church in So Cal (and an awesome teaching pastor), the worship really took a turn in recent years and not in a good way in my opinion.  It has really focused on very contemporary music (contemporary music is great is great, but there was one theme every week it seemed), no praise music (everything very slow, contemplative and while those are good to have, it just got tiresome to have this every week, every song).  and was not really &#8220;congregation friendly&#8221; in that the types of songs chosen were complicated musically (I used to sing in choirs and in worship bands) and geared for soloists. The worship leader stands on stage, and if you looked around no one in the congregation is singing. Solo songs are really fine, don&#39;t get me wrong, but this is what is brought for the congregational worship, so it would be expected (hoped) that the congregation would also participate    And to us, that was our concern, because it wasn&#39;t about leading worship anymore it was about an individual&#39;s performance.</p>
<p>We&#39;ve visited a few new churches and found one church&#39;s worship kind of refreshing.  It&#39;s a smaller church, and only about max 20 people in the choir. The associate pastor is also the worship leader.  Not the best musicians or singers, but the real difference is that it was so very clear that they were truly worshiping from the heart . And while there were only 2-3 people on a worship team while the choir wasn&#39;t singing, the ENTIRE congregation signs and the music and worship totally fill the place.  They have music for all the generations&#8211; the incorporate hymms among contemporary selections (although they are often songs we may have heard a couple of years ago), upbeat praise music and quiet contemplative songs too.  It&#39;s something for everyone, and everyone participates. Also, 15 minutes prior to service, everyone is invited to the sanctuary to sing the old hymns and I saw many seniors do this too. </p>
<p>I think it&#39;s good to be seeker senstive when planning the worship&#8211; think about the generations that the congregation is representing, think about people in various stations in life, think about a person of any age coming to church for the very first time. How do we want to prepare hearts for the message? For some, worship/music, etc. isn&#39;t all that important,they are just ready to dive into the Word, and that&#39;s awesome. For me, I have so much going on the entire week, a lot of stress and distractions,and for me worship really helps me to slow down, focus, and prepare my heart to hear the Word.</p>
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		<title>By: chris un canada</title>
		<link>http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/12/before-you-know-it-it-will-be-us/#comment-250940</link>
		<dc:creator>chris un canada</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 09:25:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>A passage from Phillipians 2 that relates to this area:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;We are supposed to approach church life as servants of each other - submiting to each other - &quot;considering others as better than ourselves&quot;.  As such, I should deal with specific areas (such as worship) the same way.  Instead of asking what style of music best suits my tastes, my priority should be those around me, and their priority in turn should be me.  Instead, we seem to deal with many of these issues backwards - fighting for our own desires.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Not an answer, I know, just some additional thought that rumbling around in my head.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A passage from Phillipians 2 that relates to this area:</p>
<p>&#8220;Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others.&#8221;</p>
<p>We are supposed to approach church life as servants of each other &#8211; submiting to each other &#8211; &#8220;considering others as better than ourselves&#8221;.  As such, I should deal with specific areas (such as worship) the same way.  Instead of asking what style of music best suits my tastes, my priority should be those around me, and their priority in turn should be me.  Instead, we seem to deal with many of these issues backwards &#8211; fighting for our own desires.</p>
<p>Not an answer, I know, just some additional thought that rumbling around in my head.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Durbin</title>
		<link>http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/12/before-you-know-it-it-will-be-us/#comment-250939</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Durbin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 08:45:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I don&#039;t really think there&#039;s a lack of options for the older generation. Traditional churches are everywhere. Churches that are relevant to the current culture are the ones that are hard to find. Be yourself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#39;t really think there&#39;s a lack of options for the older generation. Traditional churches are everywhere. Churches that are relevant to the current culture are the ones that are hard to find. Be yourself.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave ©</title>
		<link>http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/2008/12/before-you-know-it-it-will-be-us/#comment-250937</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave ©</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 08:04:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Our parents and those in their generation have a lot of wisdom to offer...if only we in our generation are humble enough to ask them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our parents and those in their generation have a lot of wisdom to offer&#8230;if only we in our generation are humble enough to ask them.</p>
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