Should Your Worship Leader GO To Your Church?
Let me preface this post by saying that we hire and rotate worship leaders at Buckhead Church. They are amazing and God fearing. This post is about what works for you and why.
Why the preface?
Because although that is the way it is done around here, I am constantly searching for ways to close the gap.
For ways to create a trusting relationship with our attenders and my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
So I wonder.
2 Questions.
1. Do you feel that it is as important for the attenders to have as consistent a relationship with the worship leader that stands before them as they have with the communicator that stands before them?
Why?
2. Do you feel like the worship leader needs to be an integral part of that church family in order to appropriately lead them where they are at?
Why?
I have feelings both ways on the subject and look forward to discussing them with you in the comment section below.
Oh. And b4 you answer…please do so with respect and without sticking your foot in your piehole.
Talk to me…
Los
RAIN IT DOWN
Yes, the worship leader needs to attend the church. It is imperative that he or she have a close working relationship not only with the Senior Pastor to get the vision for the service, but with Christ. I have been in church settings where that relationship was not evident and the worship service suffered.
If the WL is truly leading a congregation into worship, he is doing it from more than the platform. The congregation needs to see that leader more than from just behind the guitar or mic, they need to see them interacting with the congregation on a more personal level…even in a mega church
As a worship leader I can't imagine begin connected as an integral part of my church. To me the thing is the whole 'leader' thing. If we are really leading people shouldn't we be involved more than just a few hours each week?
Dang I just don't know.
Thanks for messing up my mind on this one.
On #1: I think so. It seems in your idea of closing the gap, part of how that will happen best is when people have some sense of connection with the people who lead them in every aspect of a Sunday morning. Sure, this isn't the case at conferences and whatnot, but we're talking about a total life of encounter with Christ, not just a moment in a conference session. So for the long haul I think it would be helpful.
On #2: I think it is important for them to be a part of the church for several reasons. But I think the most significant is that I want to make sure people who are leading, in any respect, buy into who we are and where we're heading as a church. That's my take anyway.
Having never been part of a church where the worship lead was NOT part of the body (either in several churches in PA or in several in the South), this is relatively new concept for me. I tend to enjoy having fresh faces up there from time to time – it helps keep us out of the ruts. But I think it's important for the worship leader to be part of the community on both sides of the stage. For him/her to understand the needs and the personality of the congregation, it's helpful to be a part of it. And when there is an opportunity to "do life together" with the person leading worship each week, it can help with authenticity. At least that's been the case for the smaller churches I've been part of. (By smaller I mean under 500.)
I can't imagine our worship leader not being a part of our church. An occasional guest leaders is good and all, but I'd want our worship leader to be fully involved in the life of our church (whether paid or volunteer). I also (just my opinion) don't think a large rotation of worship leaders is good. Two or three maybe, but that's tops.
I have to say yes to both questions (at least for our church). One of my biggest goals since I came to my current church has been to break down barriers between "those on the stage and those in the seats", so to speak. I don't think it's possible to do that and still be only the guy behind the keyboard on Sundays. It's important for me to be interacting and communicating with the folks in our congregation on Sunday and all week long: hanging out, checking in, and just generally being active in the community. I absolutely encourage all of our other worship ministry folks to take this approach as well. Not only does it (hopefully!) make it easier for the congregation to relate and connect to me/us, it helps me keep my finger on the pulse of what the church needs at any given time.
Wow, you know I never even asked this question, I always just assumed the answers were Yes and Yes.
Since you've got me thinking though it'll be interesting to see how this plays out.
I do think that it is important for the worship leader to be a part of the community. I do see his or her role as integral as the communicator's. I mean the worship leader has as much 'face time' with the congregation as the communicator (typically) and they're engaging people in an environment that's just as worshipful but perhaps more emotional (for me at least) and there should be a connection with them.
I can think however of conferences and worship events (some of your buddies! Kristian and Fee and those guys) and I feel connected though even in that night!
I think though that for a church, there needs to be a synchronization between all aspects of worship that is in alignment with the vision of the church. Bringing in a worship leader that isn't a part of the community or church would just seem incredibly difficult and counterproductive. Not to say that it couldn't happen but man that seems hard!
thats a tough question. i think we have to define what "goes to the church" means. correct me if i'm wrong but north point contracts worship leaders on a regular basis? in an ideal world i think that of course a worship leader should "be a member of" or "highly active" in a congregation but don't think it should be REQUIRED. we live in a christian society and world today where people worship more, connect more with a concert they went to last night than the regular guy/girl that stands up in front of them every week. in a perfect world would a deep personal connection with a person leading us be the preferred thing, yes, but should it be required, no. i think the only thing any of us should "demand" of our worship leaders or anyone who stands before us is that they are actively seeking God's touch and loving kindness that moves them to be one step closer to Him.
would i feel comfortable attending a church where a different preacher was hired each weekend to teach?
I don't know Michael. Are you asking yourself?
yes.
Good thoughts.
Yes. NPMI contracts worship leaders. And most of them actually are involved in a very deep level at one of the campuses.
I have seen it work in both ways.
At Sandals Church I was IT for 5 years.
That did not work because I had set my church up to only be able to follow me.
So I began building and pouring onto younger guys and gals and having them colead and then lead without me.
But I was always there.
It was my heartbeat and so it worked.
I think though sometimes churches feel like they can have this AMAZING time of musical worship if they can only bring in that big name.
Then the church will worship.
Unfortunately that is not true.
I have great friends that make a living as worship leaders who survive off of churches bringing them in to lead worship.
I guess I'm wondering how much?
Maybe once a month?
Maybe twice?
Maybe none?
I think it depends on the church but definitely think that a worship leader who is involved in a "community" on a daily basis does not have to guess as to where the church needs to go that given Sunday.
Hmmmmmmm.
Los
I'm sure those guys would say – and that you've probably experienced – that there's a direct correlation between how well a congregation is led on a week to week basis and how well the congregation engages through their (the guest leader's) leadership. That seems like a little different topic than this thread is asking, but an interesting conversation nonetheless.
As a member at Buckhead, I must say I have had some difficulty with not knowing the worship leaders. And I don't mean personally, I mean sometimes I don't even know the names of the people leading me in worship. Sometimes it causes a disconnect for me personally. Worship is such a personal thing, I find I have my best worship when its one of the more "regular" guys, because I've seen them enough to "know" them or at least have a sense of their heart for Christ, and that helps open my heart to worship faster…if that makes sense.
I consider myself a worship PASTOR, not just a worship leader. Pastoring really requires relationship and time and care, but in my opinion, so does leadership.Leadership is influence and the closer the relationship the more we can be influential.
Answering your actual questions:
1) Yes. I believe the relationship with the worship leader is just as important as the relationship with the communicator. I believe a worship leader is also a communicator, just in a different way.
2) If I didn't KNOW my congregation it would be harder to relate to them, to know their hurts, to encourage them when they are down. My role is played throughout the week, not just on Sunday morning. I pastor within my church not just my team and not just on Sunday morning. I LOVE my church and I think that is important – a loving relationship that flows throughout the week and into Sunday mornings.
I agree with both sides. I think there is a difference between a local church worship leader and a traveling worship leader. I think it is beneficial to have a team of local church worship leaders that are ingrained into the life of the church. As a local church worship leader, you lead worship for where that community is at. The original songs reflect the dynamics of that community. I believe that is a gifting.
On the other hand, you can have a traveling worship leader come in and jumpstart or shock a community with their gifting and message. But when they leave, the local church worship leaders continue to lead their community in the "after shock."
It just doesn't seem that one works without the other. I do recommend a team of local church leaders though. Sometimes listening to the same voice and message can grow boring after a while. A team keeps the community on their toes and challenges the community from different angles.
In our modern worship circles, we have elevated alot of things in recent years: we've elevated the talent and performance of our worship teams, we've elevated the ambiance and stage design, we've elevated our song selections, we've elevated our use of technology to enhance worship. What I fear we have NOT elevated is the intimacy of the church body. When a worship leader is not an active part of the church body, we run the risk of missing out on real intimacy in worship. The worship leader is not necessarily meant to LEAD the body to the throne of God….he/she is meant to walk WITH the body to the throne. It's just that he/she has the privilege of pointing out the direction.
When the worship leader has no personal connection with the people, it becomes increasingly difficult to sustain that sense of intimacy in worship. An occasional guest leader is great…provides some variety and a fresh perspective. But if that is the rule rather than the exception, the body can become disconnected very quickly.
It's the same way for me with my pastor. If I feel a connection to that person, and I have been able to walk side by side in ministry with that person, I will go anywhere he leads…knowing (through my personal experiences with him) that I can completely trust the direction he leads. In the same way, a worship pastor who is in the trenches with the church body is one who can take the church body to new heights of worship, and they will gladly go.
Where there is no relationship, there is no real trust.
Just my pathetic thoughts.
Personally, I find it easier to get over the "rock star" syndrome if I see someone more frequently and have a chance to have a relationship with that person.
i might come from a different perspective…. but i'm a bible school goer. We have chapel 5 days a week. Most of the time, worship is led by a rotation of student worship leaders…. which is great because they know where we are blah blah blah… however, about once every other week, the school brings in guest worship leaders from surrounding churches, and will bring in guest leaders for special events. I love this. It gives us a chance to experience worship from someone else's point of view and it keeps us from getting in a rut. It keeps worship fresh, and we get to enjoy lots of different people we wouldn't normally get to hear from.
I think whether or not he or she should be an active member is up for debate. I do think that being in agreement with the vision and direction of the church is much more crucial. Most important of all though is that the worship leader be active in currently disciplining younger worship leaders. My opinion is that if you're a worship leader and you're not disciplining younger leaders, you're not doing 60+ % of your job.
The discipleship point is right on.
What he said.
I will add that the rotation of worship leaders is one of more genius things y'all do. I love, love, love walking into the building Sunday morning not knowing if there's going to be a jazz choir, folk band, college step team, or any number of other musical styles I've seen at our campuses.
Here's another nice thing:
I worked at a large church in Missouri for a summer during college. It's a fantastic church to work for, but I don't know if I could ever be attender there. The music leader has a very distinct folk/jazz wannabe Don Mclean style of music that he never breaks out of. You're stuck with him at least 4 out of 5 Sundays if not more. There have been NP and Buckhead leaders in the past that I haven't particularly cared for one reason or another (actually it's been a while come to think of it), but it was always easier to get over it and still concentrate on the song, knowing that I wouldn't have to work at overcoming a preferential dislike the next Sunday. Basically, hope makes the tough times not as tough.
Is it not possible to create different styles of music with the same people? I'm the worship pastor at a small church plant, and for me creativity is part of worshiping God. Now, we don't try to make every single Sunday completely different from the one before it, but there are changes each weekend. For instance, one weekend we have a full band and I'm up there feeling like I'm head banging. A couple weeks later we did an acoustic set with just a Djembe and 2 acoustics. If Brad, THE guitarist I have, plays electric, it sounds a lot more like Foo Fighters, if I play electric it'll sound a lot more like John Mayer. And Brad can do Mayer if that's what we decide to do. And we only have one guy who plays drums, but he could play anything he wants so he doesn't count. All that to say that different styles can be done with the same people, it just takes a lot of work and some talented people.
When I saw your question it reminded me of blog post of Ross Parsley called "Worship Leader or Worship Pastor." Here's a clip of the first paragraph:
Worship Leader or Worship Pastor?
Just because we lead people in worship doesn’t mean that we are fulfilling the role of a Worship Pastor. Anybody with a guitar, a tour bus and a good song can lead people in worship, but when the bus pulls out of town all you’re left with is a great experience. God certainly uses these experiences, but the challenge of authentic transformation happens in the trenches of weekly coaching, encouraging, and serving the people in your own local church family. This is the value of a Worship Pastor.
You can check out the whole article and a comment from Matt Browning at
http://newlifeblogs.com/rossparsley/2008/10/14/wo...
Good question, Los
Grace & Peace,
Tina
I think there is another issue to throw out there.
I think size of church plays a big part in this. Smaller churches know and see their leaders more often. The in smaller churches have a sense that they need to really personally know their leaders. Larger churches don't have as close of a connect with all the staff.
I could be wrong. I think this will play into the discussion.
I also feel that whether or not he or she should be an active member is something that is highly debatable. My previous church hired and rotated worship leaders and, although one can argue that all day long, I will say that there was definitely a disconnect with some of the congregation.
I don't necessarily know where I fall on the debate, but I do believe 1000% that there is something extremely powerful about God using worship leaders in a local church to write songs specific to their journey as a group of believers. There's something to be said about that. So, if I base all things on that statement, then yes, attenders should have a level of consistency with a worship leader (if possible). The problem is that some churches have no choice but to bring in "outside" worship leaders due to restrictions within their congregation.
just my .02.
Here's where I'm at with it. I know for myself as a worship leader it would be extremely difficult to lead worship if I wasn't a regular part of the body I lead for. It's about that connection to the movement of God that is happening over time with that group of people. I'm not saying a guest leader or someone from a different church couldn't lead the body to a place of real worship. I'm saying, I see an opportunity for more intimate worship when the leader has been the one walking in the same valleys and deserts as those he or she is leading.
Look at it from a different direction. Imagine that your worship service was after the teaching/sermon and not before. Now, imagine your worship leader didn't bother to listen to the sermon and just got up and played the list he felt like. There wouldn't definitely be a big opportunity for awkward dissymmetry.
i totally agree. part of leading is knowing where your followers (for lack of a better word) are. yes, the Spirit could give divine revelation, but more often than not, we know where others are because we are walking with them in the journey.
Absolutely!
I don't think it is as important that the congregation be connected with a particular leader. But for the leader to be connected to the congregation is paramount.
Great point about the potential awkwardness.
i personally believe that the leader should attend the church and be involved there – if it's a smaller church…
that being said, i know other places do it differently and that's fine. i'm not a megachurch guy, and i think in a smaller setting like christian church buckhead, it's important. don't know from the big church (NPM) standpoint so i won't comment.
in a small church like ours i think the congregation's worship is more intimate with one another, and having familiar faces on stage, people they know and trust, makes it easier to let go.
i'm very interested in hearing what the big church folks have to say about this one.
I don't think (1) is such a big deal, but (2) is, at least to me….
Part of a worship leader's job is to be in tune to where the Holy Spirit is taking the church body during any given season, and to be a catalyst for that. I don't see how anyone could do that well if they aren't an active part of the body they're seeking to minister to. Of course a guest could come in and be very anointed and God could use that in amazing ways, but that doesn't seem like a good norm to me….
I've only experienced churches that have consistency in leaders. In the church I attend at home, we have one worship pastor who has been leading worship there for over a decade. Once in a while someone else will lead worship, but I would estimate that this is once every 6-7 weeks and is someone who attends the church regularly.
At the church I attend at school, the worship leaders rotate every week. I believe that there are four worship teams and that each leads once per month. Each team has a different leader (sometimes multiple leaders), but all four attend consistently.
I guess it makes sense to me to have a worship leader who is active in the church all the time. It seems appropriate that a worship leader would know where the congregation is at and lead them accordingly (that is, push them deeper, etc.). Obviously if a worship leader is unfamiliar with the congregation and does goofy things (relatively speaking), the congregation may not respond well. So I guess I lean toward the worship leader who attends and is in relationship with the congregation, but that's probably mostly because I haven't seen the other option modeled.
i am going to ask a potentially stupid question…
what need is served/met by a worship leader NOT being a part of the local body where he/she is serving?
I don't think it's a necessity for the worship leader to attend the church in order to lead. As long as they know it's a Christ following, Jesus Freak kinda place…the worship will be awesome.
I also find it important to have different leaders. The worship experience isn't about who leads. They are just the catalyst between us & God. Creating an experience. My old church family had the same worship leader every week. People became dependent on HER to have a good worship experience. We have to remember the worship is about us (individuals & the body) & God. Who is singing or playing the axe shouldn't determine our ability / willingness to praise Him.
What about churches, like the one where I'm the worship pastor, who are too small(meaning financially unable) to bring in different worship leaders every week? I live in Charlotte, NC, famously know for being the home of Elevation Church. They have a similar thing to Northpoint. They have staffed worship leaders, but hire musicians out. This has really set the culture here in Charlotte that that's the way churches SHOULD do it. But again, for churches like mine, we cannot do that. Hey, I'm not even paid full-time so we can't do that stuff.
My point is that churches who do pay attract worship leaders and musicians more so than churches who don't. I'm not complaining about this putting us at a disadvantage or anything, I really don't think it does. Now, we're really lucky in that we have super talented musicians and singers, as well as a guy who I believe can become a phenomenal worship leader, who are a part of the church and thus we don't have to pay them at all. And it's because they believe in the church and really want to be a part of it.
So my question to you is this. why is it important to have different worship leaders? And if churches can't have different worship leaders, are they suffering because of it?
I would agree that in a small church setting it's sometimes hard to get variety because of funds. Our worship leader was never paid at our old church. I do think the worship experienced suffered by her single leadership. For example – she sang in a key that very few were comfortable with. Most of us mouthed the words. It wasn't very fulfilling experience. But if she only sang once a month & the other 3 weeks were lead by another person…more people have the chance to engage.
That sounds like an issue with the lead pastor not going to the worship leader and telling her the issue's the congregation is having with not being able to follow her leading.
At GCC we have 3 full time worship leaders, the rest are volunteers. To be honest I don't care for 1 because I think he's always flat & picks songs I don't care for. I should be focused on glorifying, but let's be honest…a large number of people go to church just for the music experience…so I'll represent that group. But the other worship leaders give me a chance to sing, move, express, love God like that other worship leader can't. If I didn't have a connection w/ the music…I wouldn't go. The variety of leaders allows churches to reach a variety of people.
I know small churches have 1 maybe 2 pastors, and that works for them. And it'll work for lots of folks looking to take their next right step. But it doesn't work for everyone. Each church has to identify their need, their abilities & use them to the best of their abilities. There are no right or wrong answers to this question.
Totally agree with your first paragraph. Variety of leadership definitely helps reach a variety of people. And yes, different worship leaders interact with people differently.
I just wanted to know what you meant by "Each church has to identify their need, their abilities and use them to the best of their abilities". Sorry, I'm just a little confused there.
If the church feels like one worship leader is working or that's what they can afford. Then they do their best w/ what they've decided.
As for the old worship leader…in a small church where Dad is the pastor, Mom is the women's leader & daughter is the worship leader…there's sometimes some gaps in communication & responsibilities.
Coming from a worship leader who was being hired out at different churches each week then was at one church consistently for 4 years and now is back to being hired out to different churches each week, I will say that when I get the opportunity to lead the same group of people for more than 3 times (in a row if I'm lucky) I can feel a closer connection to them. When I was at my last church for 4 years I could tell you not only where they were going spiritually but where their kids were going to school. Their connection to me gave me a fuel that I miss dearly.
So that being said, I feel that it encourages the worship leader just as much as people when there is some form of consistency. How much? Who knows.
I think the first issue is more of an important one and determines the answer to the second question.
Is there a message that pushed you closer to Christ than ever before?? Or is there a person that taught you more about God or pushed you further to Christ than ever before??? I think that its a person. If you believe that people can have that impact in your life based on consistent contact in your relationship then I think that the answer to the first question is yes. If you feel that the worship leader can't have that kind of relationship.
The second question to me stems from that one. However, I think the relationship to the people is more important that the relationship to the church.
Amy, that wasn't a stupid question.
I think its nothing to debate. The worship leader either is or isnt a part of that "specified" body. Now, whether there be a "correct" answer or not is weak sauce. I've seen, and been a part, of both circumstances. I also find both situations interesting. Pros and cons can be found up and down the board here.
Our purpose in worship…in life…needs to be met. Thats what it comes down to. Our father in heaven being glorified. I say if a guy/girl rocking the stage for Jesus is/isnt a "member" of your specific body, then so be it. God be the glory. Not membership. Not preference.
Is there anything in the Word that relates to this?
If the Levites were part of Israel, and they were the worship leaders of their people, would it be fair to argue that they were a part of the community they lead worship for? They also were supported by the tithe of that community as well.
1. No.
2. No.
In fact, music is so different because it is so emotional. I would caution against the danger of using one person too often. It can become a love fest that has unhealthy elements. Variety is good! For communicators, too!
First of all, this is one of those questions that there is no right answer too. But discussion is really good.
I think that one worship leader (or team of worship leaders) is an important aspect in creating a worship culture in a growing, smaller church. In order to grow as a body of worshippers, there must be some consistent leadership to close the gap between God and the congregation.
The reason that larger churchs can get away with having more "guest" worship leaders is because they already have (or should have!) a solid worship culture. This also gives more opportunities to empower younger worship leaders to lead the congregation into God's presence.
I can't imagine regularly attending a church that changes worship leaders that often. Regardless of the "church reasons" for the changes, people will view it as unstable. Especially when you're talking about big churches where, as much as you might not want to admit, everyone's voice isn't heard.
.
I'm not saying the guy or gal can't take a vacation or things shouldn't be switched up on a Sunday or two, but I love the consistency of our church. I know what to expect and I know what he expects. And guess what, when he's gone, I know the guy or gal that will be taking his place while he's gone. Of course, I'm a routine kinda guy and consistency is everything to me. I understand not everyone will agree
Los:I've been to a lot of churches,haven't been to one with a decent worship leader in awhile. Some may prefer to be more transient like musicians rather than putting up with the responsibilities of being on staff. As far as hiring, some folks want to have a relationship with the leader. It's important to have a team of "like-minded" individuals who may be completely different in personalities, but have the same overalll philosophy of ministry.
We are missing like 25 comments in this thread. Sorry guys. Should be back soon.
I feel so left out
sounds like there's a lot of different bodies represented here. i've been at a home church environment and a super. Right now we are tiny. It's where God has us. I don't think that Scripture has any guidelines, other than Titus 2.
i feel like the worship leader should not only be on staff at the church, but be an integral part of the leadership team. getting in there and helping to oversee programming and series planning. i think there's too much disconnect between the leader and the vision of the church and the service if the worship leader isn't on the leadership team and on staff and on board with the vision of the church on a day to day and every day basis. i also feel the body of the church loses out on the trust and building of the relationship that having a full time worship leader brings to the church environment. sundays and services shouldn't be a concert and if there's always someone new — i feel they become just a part of the show and not a part of the family.
I think there should be a consistent relationship in most cases. Our church has 2 rotating leaders for each of the services. As others have stated, it provides the familiarity that many need. Also, we have many new believers in our church. I think those people need it more than mature believers. It provides a view of a person following Christ consistently.
I have mixed emotions on whether the leader should be a part of the church as far as attendance. On one hand, the flock might tend to be offended if he didn't. On the other hand, he might be able to be exposed to new ideas in worship. I guess the old standard of going to a convention or a few workshops might suffice. And the potential for offending might outweigh the benefit of being able to "roam."
My church would say not only should the worship leader go to church, but would hold the worship leaders to the same standards they hold anyone else in leadership. I agree, one reason being that the worship leaders are a very public face of the church and, for better or worse, represent the church. I also believe that if you lead at a church, you need to be a part of that community, as opposed to coming in from the outside to do that specific task (lead worship, preach, etc.).
I don't want to hammer anyone who has a different view, but I do want to understand those views better, particularly the argument that it is all right to hire out musicians to perform worship.
This issue is non-existent in the scriptures, making it really hard to pin down the "right" answer for every Church. In regards to the health of the worship experience, it's neither here nor there for most of the congregation, espeically if the church is quite large and the personal connections between the guitar player and the back row are going to be minimal anyway. And not to offend, but most people aren't coming in hopes of personally connecting with the worship leader; they're coming to connect with the God of the worship. So on the base level, which for me would be the health of the church, I'm not sure this matters.
However…
Concerning me most is NOT what this style of leadership does to or for the congregration (I think they're safe), but it what it does to the worship leader himself. I don't really know what that means, but it's right beneath the surface and I feel that it's a real and legitimate concern.
Any thoughts on this?
Wow-great questions Carlos. Having engaged in worship in both a small church and large church setting, and having lead worship in a small-mid sized church setting my answer to your questions above are that: there's no one way to eat a Reeses. On one side of the coin, it is good to have consistency especially if you are reaching people at the beginning stages of their walk with Christ. Like with children, there are times when you do something repeatedly because you are trying to build something substantial and stable in them. On the other side of that coin, you offer something good to provide different worship experiences. We communicate with God and with people in multi-faceted ways, why would worship be any different? Unfortunately, given Buckhead Church, you can't know the exact spiritual demographic you are reaching because there are people who are coming from so many different experiences. Some people need the consistency, other people need the variety. I like that you leave it up to discussion, because I've seen where both cases are beneficial to knit a community of believers together and have the continuity of Sunday morning fellowship. I would have to err on the side of "change is good" even though I believe that it is also good to build a relationship with the congregation you are leading and being "there" on Sunday morning and connecting is a good thing. Yet, as one man amongst thousands, you can't possibly shoulder that burden by yourself and it is imperative to have a healthy group of worshipers with whom you can shoulder that responsibility.
I don't really think there is a "right" answer here, But I personally really like having the person who weekly leads me into the presence of God be a part of the same community as me. My church has brought other leaders in from time to time to visit, and that is fine, but to me worship is the most intimate part of my relationship with God and having someone I know on a personal level and am comfortable with makes the experience easier to engage in. And also there is the factor of me knowing him and knowing that he is a true worshipper not a wanna be rock star who couldn't make it in the music industry so he got a job at a church helps as well.
Los,
1. Baller topic.
2. This falls along the same lines as the whole "baptism" thing. I'm big on community so I would prefer that my worship leader/teacher not so much goes to my church, but is a vital part of the community/church family.
This also solidifies whether or not your church body considers the lead worshipper an actual Pastor, or a staff member.
I understand why northpoint rotates and I love it, but I do think it distances the leader from the community and almost brings in a sense of "celebrity" to people who should be be humbled and not exalted. Let's face it, we artists already have "spotlight issues" and probably need therapy on a weekly basis. Why amplify that?
When you have baller dudes like Fee leading, why rotate them when you can plant roots and sow fruit?
Just a thought,
you're the man,
JP
If you're looking for some practicle steps, then I would say that maybe you ask them to come just be a part of the service when they're not playing somewhere else. That's not a huge step like asking them not to play anywhere else and only come to your church. But it's still a big step that would certainly get noticed by the members of the church. And I would tell them, "Hey, I'm asking you to do this because I feel like there's a big gap between us(meaning those that lead from the stage) and the audience, and I think this might help."
I don't know if that helps you or not, or if you like it or not, but it's there.
I'm totally digging the concept of rotating worship leaders. It creates a "something for everyone" type of vibe. I believe this is where my Pastor is trying to take our worship experiences in the coming year. My Pastor is not a member of the church, but I find that his establishing a platonic relationship with the members is essential to "us" connecting with him, and understanding and accepting his method of teaching and the spiritual direction he hopes to take the church.
We use to break bread once a quarter. Now I can't remember the last time we did that. Any chance we can do it again soon?
What about using worship leaders on video like video teaching?
looking forward to weighing in on this one when i get a few minutes. GREAT dialogue though. dig the discussion.
I don't think it is healthy to have a group of people lean on just one person. Not for teaching, not for leadership at any level and not for worship. It is unhealthy for the body to pour it all into one person AND it is unhealthy for that one person to be "it." I do think, however, that the relationship should be consistent enough for the group to have a connection with the leader.
Right now, we are looking for a WL and we are looking for someone who is as passionate about reproducing themselves into potential leaders and they are about leading people in worship. So, I guess we value a high level of involvement overall, but not to the point that they become "it."
Honestly, I think it could be either way. The person's heart has to be right and after that, I would say it's up to the lead pastor and what he feels comfortable with. At the church I attend you have to be and active member, go through classes and all that stuff, which I think is good just to make sure everyone is on the same page. I have never even heard of having a non member lead worship before this post. Interesting…
I just realized that I've been on the other side of this issue. I've been an "itinerant" worship leader for different events, often youth or women's gatherings. (Still trying to break through the glass ceiling that seems to cover some church stages, I guess.) Anyway, when I have not been able to spend time with the group I'm leading, it feels so much more like a concert – like there isn't a connection. Yes, I know, through Jesus we are all connected. But it can feel so forced when you're trying to encourage a bunch of people you just met to encounter God through worship music. (This probably isn't as big a deal for large crowds at bigger churches and events.)
Good discussion here. My thoughts are that the worship leader should definitely be involved and serving within the church throughout the week. But the reason why is that Worship is so much more than just singing on Sunday morning. We have to be careful to not setup a system that teaches people that worship only happens when we have an awesome singer/musician on stage. Let's broaden our view of worship to more than just singing.
My desire as a WL is to be in unity with the leadership of the church. That we would be heading in the direction that God has set for this body as it relates to the larger body of Christ. It is hard (not impossible) for me to imagine that for a leader that was not a member of the church. I also totally agree with Jason Gordon that it is dangerous when you are the "it" person. Part of being a WL is teaching people what it means to worship and the last time I checked it didn't take me leading for them to worship.
I do feel that it is important for attenders to have a "consistent relationship" with the worship leader(s). As a worship leader you are asking people to leave their comfort zone and enter into a place of ecstatic rejoicing as well as intense intimacy with God. It is hard to truly do that unless there is some kind of trust between the leaders and the participants. Of course the goal is not to have some weird form of hero worship; however, there are just some places that you will only go with someone you trust.
This is one of the reasons I feel the worship leader should be a part of the local church family. More often than not the worship leader is the second most visible/vocal person on a Sunday morning. It is my conviction as a worship leader that I am an ambassador of Christ first, but also a representative of my local church. What I say, sing, and call people to do in worship should be in line with not only who we are as a local church, but where we are in our journey together with God. If I don't line up with the vision and values of the church I should probably find another church. How disfunctional is it when a church is leading people one way and the worship leader is going another way? I've sat in churches were there is a weird tug'o'war going on with the worship leader and the pastor…awkward. It usually ends up with an unofficial "church plant" starting in someones house or coffee shop.
I have much more stirring in me on this topic; however, I will offer some questions I think a church should ask when attempting to answer these questions.
1. If your worship leader(s) don't want to be apart of your local church family, why?
2. Do you want your worship leader(s) to consider Sunday morning a gig?
3. What is your view of corporate worship on Sunday mornings (or whenever you gather)?
4. Are you okay with the lifestyle of the worship leader(s) not lining up with the convictions of the church family?
5. Do you care more about the spiritual wellbeing of the worship leader or how rockin' the music is?
6. Do you want a worship leader or a singer that can cover praise and worship songs?
Having only been to 2 churches consistently in my entire life (31 years…long, I know…:-P), I have only seen worship leaders from the point of view of being part of the congregation or community. My first church experience was at a very traditional Southern Baptist church where the Music Minister was a hired position and he only went to our church and led our church's music programs (choir, children's choir, handbells, etc.). The church I am currently attending (second church of my life) is a much more "contemporary" style (although I can't stand the word contemporary…) There was one leader of the music or worship when we began attending there and he was on staff as well as part of the larger community. When he and his wife left to plant a church (with our church's support), the leading of the worship became placed onto the shoulders of my husband and one of his best friends. Both had played in the band with the other worship leader and both were and are integral parts of the community. The worship team is now being led by a part time Creative Arts staff member with support from the rest of the band. It is a community in itself but is also part of the larger community. The way that our church has set it up, people must be "partners" (our version of membership) in order to fulfill certain "positions" within the church. In order to be a partner, you must have been attending the church for 6 months or more, be committed to the ministries of the church, understand the core values of the church, etc. So, I guess our church would not have worship leaders that are not part of the community. I'm not sure how I really feel about it because this is all I have ever experienced…I haven't ever thought about having a worship leader that isn't part of the larger community….does any of that make sense? Or am I just rambling here?
Different strokes for different folks…
My opinion… Worship Pastor… yes!, Worship Leader… not necessarily. (I love Tiffany's reference to Ross Parsley's Article)
I don't know your exact title @ Northpoint Los, but I would assume that you fill the "Worship Pastor" Roll and contract Worship Leaders to lead. In a Church that size it's probably a good idea for you to get stage time as much as possible whether you're leading or not. Maybe even weekly if possible.
Without leadership the people will fail in their worship.
I've been a part of mega-churches, church plants and medium sized churches with various systems for worship. Some of my most memorable worship experiences are from a mega-church that didn't have a Worship Pastor. The music culture there was amazing! The main reason??? They had a non-musical Pastor that ministered to and coordinated with the worship culture.
Question #1 Yes! (Worship Pastor)
Question #2 No! (Worship Leader)
Great topic…great comments…definitely not an easy answer. However, I noticed that your post title is actually different than the 2 questions you ask…
In your title you used the phrase "GO to church" yet in the post you used the phrase "integral part of the church family." The title implies church as a location, the post implies church as a relational community. I think the different views elicits different answers.
but since intense debate says my comment is too long…check my next comment…
In our consumeristic-westernized worldview, the gathering of God's people together by Jesus and sent out to be witnesses to Him throughout the world has been reduced to "a place where we GO TO in order to get feed through teaching and worship.
If our understanding of church is just a place to GO TO…then it doesn't matter if the worship leader or teaching pastor or staff for that matter GO TO the church as well…just as long as they are able to "feed the flock." In fact, if they attend other churches they might be able to "deliver a better product" (to use familiar consumeristic language).
But if our understanding of the church is WHO WE ARE, then I think it is essential that everyone…from the person who cleans the toilets to the person who leads worship be invested into the community.
los, i was kind of asking myself. not sure how i would answer. we have regular worship leaders, but there is a huge value for us in bringing in fresh stuff from the outside (works the same way for speakers too). i think it's important for there to be a connection and a buy in. that's not totally necessary for special occasions where the value is because of the new approach.
I'm used to seeing the same lead singer up there (Brian Wurzell for the past 7 years). I loved it, and didn't mind at all when we had other guys and girls step in to lead once in a while. Even on the same day, stepping in for a song or two. A question we asked was whether or not our worship band needed to be Christians- we had a handful of drummers come through that didn't know Jesus. It was great having them in the green room on Sundays hanging with the band and teaching pastors.
To answer your question, in my opinion it sounds like a matter of preference for each community. People are more and more comfortable with things that are much less traditional (umm church happens online and on movie screens now).
LOVE LOVE LOVE, that you had non believers playing the drums. That is awesome!
I was thinking about this some more on my drive back from the grocery store as I was listening to sports radio. I was thinking how having a worship leader who doesn't attend the church is kind of like having a sports talk dj who doesn't live in your town commenting on your team. Sure. They'll have insight and be knowledgeable, but they'll be missing that local connection that makes their opinion poignant and powerful. A goofy analogy. I know.
We live in a small blue-collar town. It is vital that our worship leader be 'one of us'. That is just kind of the area's mentality.
I treasure the leadership our worship leaders provide for our teams off the stage as well as on, songwriting, doing lunch, fellowship, holding one another accountable, small groups all these things that couldn't be expected of a worship leader from outside our ministry.
I am unaware of Biblical mandate specific to this question, although Acts 2 makes it clear we are to belong to and not neglect gathering together on a committed basis.
you can see our worship guys at http://www.crossroadswired.com
Oh. That's good. I think that is the point I am getting at.
I don’t think consistency of worship leaders is necessary. Having been at a church where I saw the same face each week and now at a church that rotates leaders between campuses, I think the critical factors are the planning for the service, an authentic spirit of worship from the leader, and a environment that lends itself to concentrating on God.
As a worship pastor I always thought the hard decisions/conversations would be easier if I didn’t have a close relationship with the church goers but I think I should probably still attend the church I work at. Its hard to catch the vision God has given the leadership if you’re only around when you’re “on.” On the other hand, I’ve only ever been in a situation with one worship leader and then some people who could fill in when I was gone so I don’t have a ton of experience with multiple worship leaders.
I do think it's important for those who lead worship regularly to be a part of the local body. That's obviously not to say that 'outsiders' can't come in and fill in. But I think you need to 'know those who labor among you' (1 Thes 5:12). It's really nice to know that those leading in worship are a part of whats going on in the local assembly.
seems like if the church can afford to have a guy there all the time it's preferable. I'm pretty sure you're not talking about churches in financial problems though. You're talking about churches wanting someone sexier than the dude they already have. that, i would think, is problematic.
I have no problem w/ bringing in worship leaders from outside of a fellowship..on occasion. We have done this, and it can be like good news from a distant land.
I would not feel comfortable having a regular lead worshiper, lead the charge, week after week and not have any connections with our body….it seems to, "rigged" and "disjointed". Yet, every circumstance may warrant different actions.
Our church has several gifted & talented worship leaders who have a rotation going on. Doing this, we find:
1. Keeps things fresh…different people connect to different leaders' styles. (the same goes for teachers)
2. Communicates to the body that it's "musical worship" is not a closed system. I think if it's the same people week after week, other musicians who frequent services may feel discouraged by thinking, "ah, shawks, they got all the help they need, they won't want me!".
3. Allows for new leaders to arise!
+peace
I think that when new worship leaders come to the high school ministry at my church, it allows to show their passion. The passion is often different than the other leaders so the crowd can c a different side of God.
Hope that makes sense
I think both works. It is not about the worship leader, but the actual worship. The inconsistancy could keep people focused on the worship and not the person. But I do believe there should be consistancy in the standards and production of the service. So therefore someone should stand in the place of "worship pastor" without having to lead on Sundays.
Did that make sense? hope so..
I think it’s important that the congregation has a relationship with the worship leader, other than during a church service.
I think it's important that the congregation has a relationship with the worship leader, other than at church services.
I'm proud. This was an intelligent and good conversation.
i love this question because i think 99% of the people reading this fall on one side, but there's the 1% (like los) who challenge what many of us so easily assume to be "best." that's why i'd love to hear more from those 1%.
as a leader, i can't imagine leading without a constant, growing relationship with the people i'm leading. i need their trust and forgiveness—they know my limitations, they know when i'm taking risks, they know my heart. so for me, some sort of relationship has to be the context.
i'm one of two full-time WL's plus a team of rotating musicians/vocalists (which are volunteers). the two of us are usually on stage together but we'll rotate leadership between sundays (or between songs). this helps build consistency while leaving room for variety.
I go to an old fashioned presbyterian church where we just call the people who speak pastor or assistant pastors. I thought you were questions were interesting but in trying to read the responses I realized I don't even know exactly what a worship leader is. Half of the responses make no sense to me so obviously I am not really qualified to answer your questions. I will tell you that I would probably have a hard time feeling a real connection to my church if there were a rotating door of pastors giving the sermon each week. It would be sort of fun at first but then I think I would miss having a connection with that person. Even though my church is sort of fancy, Todd our pastor is not and I feel like if I needed him I could approach him. If the person speaking each week changes, who do I go to for help in a crisis? I obviously like to kick old school though so what do I know?
I LOVE your comment.
Please comment more around here.
We need to hear that stuff.
Um, okay. I read your blog regularly because I am sort of fascinated that your way of getting your Jesus on is so different from mine. I don't comment a lot because i don't really feel qualifed. A lot of times it feels like you all speak a different language than I do.
I did encourage someone to go to your church Saturday. I was driving from Nashville to my mom's house in South Georgia and I stopped at Ikea. I was standing in Ikea when I overhead this woman tell her friend she was thinking about trying Buckhead Church this Sunday. Being a good Southern girl who has never met a stranger I felt the need to help. I turned around and said "Ma'am you should really go to Buckhead Church, it's a very neat place but they don't have service tomorrow. Please be sure to go next week though because they do really cool stuff there." She told me she had heard some good things about it and she would definitely check it out.
Wow. Thanks. You rock in your own personal get your Jesus on way.
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I have no problem with paid musicians on stage. There is a certain excellence that does not always come with volunteers who only pick up their instrument for rehearsal and service. God deserves excellence. Bad music and singers deter from the congregation's worship experience and ability to 'enter in'. In fact, I know of far too many people who show up late because they don't like the p&w portion.
I do think the actual worship leader/director should be a staff member. Our current location has a rotation of bands and leaders. This gives everyone what they like in terms of sound, and no one gets too attached to one leader.
I haven't read all the comments, so I may be repeating what someone else has already said…
But, I guess i feel like every congregation has its own heartbeat and thrives in different circumstances. The only relationship you need in order to worship is with Jesus, not a worship leader. The Spirit can move whether or not a worship leader is an integral part of the church. I can't think of any scripture that states a command on either side, but if you can, let me know?
That said, I have my ideas about how a church I would attend should function. I would rather the leadership be very close nit and accountable, and that includes the worship pastor. As I'm writing this, I'm wondering about another question: do we even need worship leaders at all?
How many of us have attended a church that was fearful of what would happen if that one really good guy (or gal) up there behind the pulpit left? Kinda skews what the church is really there for, huh?
Big church or small, I'd rather have a rotation of consistently awesome leaders than a single really great one who the church relies on *much* to heavily and who has no viable backup.
And does it matter if the they are regular attenders or members? Some would say that it depends on size, but I say again, if God is using that group of leaders be heart piercing machines, if doesn't matter.
I'm big on relationship. Whether it's for a day or a lifetime, I want to engage with people.
I know in our community here in Orlando, the songwriters that are consistently engaged can write songs that are in line with what God is doing in and revealing to us. There's something really powerful in that. In a related way, it's possible for a perceptive leader to engage with a community for a short time and then lead them well.
The question I ask is not so much "are you a member of our church," but rather, "while you're here, are you engaged or removed?"
We have several leaders that come from the cities surrounding orlando to lead at our church. Their location prevents them from being physically present on a consistent basis. But they are our friends. Our hearts are knit together, and we anticipate our times together. This is vastly different from the distant leader who comes in just because they are hired to.
I guess the bottom line question is, "do we care about you, and do you care about us?"
I wish I had some really insightful Scripture to share from Leviticus about this, but I just have my own personal experiences to share. And, for me, some of my best worship experiences have been with people I don't know on stage leading.
I like to be a follower. I like to view the guy on stage as a "professional." Then I'm not constantly distracted by thoughts like: "Do you know how rude he is to people at our Wednesday dinner?" or "Why does he always pick certain songs… I could do it better!" No! He's the leader! So I'll just follow.
For some reason, that's easier for me to do at a place like Buckhead than at a little church with somebody I know leading worship. I'd much prefer being led by a professional who is a bit disconnected from the community than being led by "Joe the Plumber," the guy I talk to everyday, who stands on stage and tries to sing a song or two really timidly.
All I'm saying is that in my personal experience, a degree of separation helps me enter into worship even more. Weird, I know! But that's just me…
I think it has more to do with the WL knowing the church rather than the church knowing the worship leader. If you want to do more than just lead and experience but also be a part of long term life-change then you have to know your people like the communicator by speaking does. Essentially, us WLers communicate by what we do, too. Same standard should be applied. And, it is about discpling for the long haul, not just a moment. Each moment has to build somewhere.
BTW-love the new design.
Los,
I keep clicking the "Mark Unread" button in Google Reader for the last few days, because I *REALLY* wanted to digest this post and the comments.
Overall, I'd say "yes" – they need to be a vital part of the community there. Then again, I think we have to also answer in regard to how the culture and community are @ NPM. And I can't really comment because I've not had the pleasure of attending services anywhere except for my visits to Browns Bridge (which I really enjoy).
I know for me – there is a whole segment of folks who after 1-1/2 years, still would rather have the old leader, the old way, the old songs, etc. But as I pray and do what I know God is calling me to do, I also seek out ways to connect with this demographic on a deeper, more personal level. For instance, there is a great group of ladies who have this "quilting ministry" (long story), and I always make a point to go in that big room upstairs and say "hi" to them, to hang out a few minutes and just ask questions – who is that quilt for, tell me about the design, what is the significance of that scripture, etc. One day I walked out of the room and felt like the HOly Spirit whispered to me, "Fred, that 5 minutes just earned you some huge trust and response on Sunday AM".
Also – how many worship leaders/bands do you really contract? If it were a rotation of 5 or 6 of them … I think that connection can still be made – let's face it, the majority of people in the congregation there probably wouldn't have "seen" or "had community" with the leader that Sunday, regardless of whether or not they were "on staff" or not, right?
On a different note – I'd love for you to blog and wrestle with this question that I'm constantly wrestling with…. as our environement is similar to NPM's …
How can we lead people into an authentic response of worship, yet maintain a "safe environment" for seekers? I wrestle with that weekly – I believe that if our worship response is authentic, seekers would know that … but I also know that if people were worshiping wildly (like some services I've led throughout the years), that those seekers would probably head for the door … I dunno … wrestle, wrestle.
Great post, and though provoking, for sure!
Happy New Year,
Fred
yes a worship leader should attend church they need there soul feed as well they r people if they dont get the word in the devil can decieve them just like in other human