Breaking Demonic Oppression Within Our Church Walls
I had an up close experience in a deep healing session last week and again am blown away by the power of the Holy Spirit.
Most churches I have known don’t really get involved too deeply with demonic attachment for obvious reasons.
Understanding being the primary reason for the distance.
But Satan and his demons are as real as Christ and our angels.
If ever there was a book that I would recommend wholeheartedly to my western church going friends it is this one.
Defeating Dark Angels by Dr. Charles Kraft.
His communication skills on the matter make even the biggest skeptics comfortable.
I have battled my own demons.
Luckily we don’t have to go it alone.
I wonder a few things from this community.
How much time and thought have you put into this matter and have you ever experienced any sort of deliverance from demonic oppression?
Los
RAIN IT DOWN
one of the life-changing experiences i had with this subject matter came when i was on a missions trip when i was 21. i knew in my head that angels and demons were real, but had never had any personal experience with either.
one of the girls on our team had been dedicated to satan by her mother and grandmother at birth, but she had accepted Christ and was on the trip with us. yet she was sick and getting sicker, and our team leader was convinced it was because she was being oppressed/possessed by demonic forces.
he gathered us together–45 of us, most of whom were teenagers–and told us to start praying for her. we interceded and did warfare for several hours, and God delivered her. it was phenomenal to see the change immediately. i have never been the same since.
coincidentally–or not–this present darkness by frank peretti was a hot book that summer. that book, and the others in that series, further solidified the TRUTH i believe about angels and demons. God is the VICTOR and so are we through HIM.
You get MAD props….MAAAADD props for bringing this up in the blogsphere…pretty cool answers too by the looks of it
You shall get mine via e-mail though. haha
This has been a journey that I have been on for a few years now. I have had to deal with some instances of demonic oppression, but not generally within the local church setting. A book that made a profound impact on me is by Kraft; Confronting Powerless Christianity. Also, I have written a paper on this matter that is published at The Ooze website: http://www.theooze.com/articles/article.cfm?id=21...
I’ve read three of Dr. Kraft’s books, I’ve been to see him, and yes, I’ve experience deliverance. The power of the Holy Spirit is incredible AND IT’S IN US! We forget so often. Thanks for being brave enough to blog about this.
I will tell you this as a fact. You need to be able to do what is necessary at the time. But it's not something that I would seek to do. I've seen and heard somethings that make me want to go suck my thumb in a corner. It's not the focus of my ministry, but it is very real.
I've got a missionary friend in Uganda who has experience this stuff in the classroom. I reached out and was able to get him some resources and linked with some people.
And FYI I hold to Acts 2 view that a certain amount of those healing gifts were for particular use in planting the NT church. I realize others here have their own view and I have no problem sharing what I have studied and taught.
I began learning about this topic from Victory over the Darkness by Neil Anderson. I'm not sure I agree with everything he says, but there's a lot of truth in it. There's also a book called "Pigs in the Parlor." I have only heard it mentioned by a few friends of mine. The book, frankly, makes me a little nervous. I havne't read a ton of it (though it's a really thin book), but, again, it leaves me nervous. I'm not sure why.
Also, I think that this topic is so interesting because we, in the American/Western church, often see spiritual warfare so differently overseas than we do here in America. Foriegners – to America – are often so quick to recognize something as demonic, or heaven sent, or of some particular spiritual nature. We, here, are quick to turn things over to fate, chance, coincidence, weird feelings, headaches, health problems, etc. Just a thought.
I was reared in a 'pentecostal' church. We seen all sorts happen. Demons being cast out left-right and center. Fear of this, fear of that. This addiction, that addiction. There seemed to be a time where it just happened meeting after meeting. Spiritual giftings such as prophecy, speaking in tongues, gifts of knowledge and healing were all in effect.
But now, it seems for the most part that churches ignore this whole aspect of following Jesus. I know some churches ignore it because they are afraid it will scare away new seekers. I know some churches ignore it because they don't even think it's from God.
Whatever the reasons, there has been a huge decline over the years and it's not good. Yes, there are folk that can find demons in anything. That's not necessarily good either.
One thing that comes to mind is the 'Toronto Blessing' that caused quite a stir in the UK. People were running round church buildings roaring like lions, or even clucking like chickens, or just simply convulsing on the floor. This freaked people out and give the whole spiritual element of Christianity a bad wrap.
Would it have been different if we had grabbed the nearest clucking chicken and commanded that demon to leave in Jesus' name?
i have the spiritual gifting of exorcism and spirit discernment and have at times had to use this gifting to stick it the enemy. my church, however, almost never addresses the devil and the darkness his minions create. and it does bother me a little — but i also know that — just like tongues — there's an appropriate time and place for it.
It's something that most churches want to sweep under the rug and not talk about. The battles with demonic forces will come and they will intensify as Jesus' return draws nearer I believe.
The only experience I've had with this issue happened at a camp I was counseling at years ago. A camper in another cabin one week had been having really bad night terrors, and would remember everything that he saw the next morning. The next week he was in my cabin, and one night I offered to pray for kids one on one if they wanted to. He came to the hall and told me about the night terrors, and I started praying for him.
I remember as I was praying I prayed that if there any spirits or demons or anything negative that they would leave the child alone. As I was going through this I felt this breeze blow by. I didn't think too much of it other than how it was a creepy coincidence, and finished my prayer with him.
A couple of weeks later I was home for a weekend and attended a worship event. Part way through there was a girl who went up to the front to share her story, which involved her being involved in the occult. She said that her friend prayed with her and had prayed that any spirits or demons in her would leave, and as she did a breeze went by her. It was way too creepy to hear her say that.
A close friend of mine struggles with personal demons that affect their lives every day, which they are currently getting help for. I don't know if I think its something spiritual or just a product of abuse they experienced as a child (is there a difference? I guess I shouldn't separate spiritual life with normal life. Rob Bell – everything is spiritual).
Anyway, that's the extent of my experience with this.
I totally agree with you here. Personally, this issue needs to be discussed more and we need to get this stuff out in the open. I have my leaders go through some spiritual warfare training so they know what they are dealing with. We've seen some incredible healing take place. For those of you wanting to know more, Mark Driscoll has a great 4-hour series on it. Its in the Mars Hill Podcast feed, a few months back.
Girlfriend, let's come down here and have some church up in this town.
JK.
Sortof.
In 2004 I took an intensive course with Dr. Kraft and had the opportunity to go through some inner healing and deliverance with him. It was such a different experience than what I expected and so freeing. It is truly amazing how powerfult he Holy Spirit is! I would gladly talk to anyone about my experience with Dr. Kraft and his style too
) He's waaayyyy different than what you would expect! haha
Yea Pat. I think you are right on. When people talk about abuse and such, absolutely. Satan uses those to attach his demons to peoples lives.
Kraft's "Christianity with Power" is supposed to be great too. In general, most Westerners' worldview doesn't leave much room for the supernatural. . . . I've read some about about demonic oppression because unforgiveness can give the devil a foothold and I think (make that, know) that I've struggled with that. Sam Storms has some good on-line stuff too. http://www.enjoyinggodministries.com/studies/spir...
Peace out.
It's funny that people get really weirded out by talking about demons – as if they are buying into some crazy version of cult Christianity. They, of course, are very comfortable with the idea of angles flitting unseen around us all day.
I come up against spiritual warfare constantly in my job (Baptism and Membership at BC). It is very real – and we've had incredible stories of people coming under direct, obvious and unmistakable demonic attack. There is something that is triggered when a follower of Christ decides to go public with that identity. So, once they start telling me that they can't go forward anymore, that their life is turned "upside down" all of a sudden, and they just don't "feel right" about baptism at the moment, that's the time for me to challenge them to discern where and who that is coming from.
I definitely get some push back from new and mature Christians both when I bring it up, but ignoring evil gives it too much power. There is a happy medium between ignoring it exists and paying too much attention to it and being consumed with it.
ha. sort of.
I've experienced a little bit of demon possession while I was in College. Well let me clarify, I wasn't the one being possessed, it was two people that attended our group. One of the guys continued to have dreams that he was in hell (described much like what I had read about in the book "A divine Revelation of Hell." A couple of weeks later there was an episode with him and another girl in the group. Apparently demons where trying to attack and possess her. Our house was pretty big, and everything came in episodes. Somehow the guy always knew when the girl was being attacked by the demons and he would always try to go and save her. They couldn't here each other, but the timings where perfect. There where not clocks or watches or any way for them to tell time needless to say counting time because it would last a couple of hours with sleep in between because it took such toll on them.
Later in the evening the possession apparently happened with the girl. Her voice totally changed, and she began spitting on very close friends. It was only the power of Jesus' name where they able to control the Demon and ask it questions and to eventually leave her body.
The two obviously don't remember a thing, and really still kind of weirds the girl out a little even though 8 years have passed. But because of that day, nobody can or will ever convince me that Satan, Hell, or his demon's don't exist and that God has sent his Son to die for our Sins. And there is so much POWER in Jesus' name. Demons tremble just hearing his name.
I have grown up in a tradition that doesn't talk about this ever. But I have several friends who have taken me by the hand (literally and figuratively) to teach me about such things a bit. As I've peeked into several other streams of the Christian church, I've noticed that openness to the topic of demons & darkness usually accompanies an openness to the manifestations of the Holy Spirit, and visa versa. Through my growing up years I heard plenty about the dangers of seeing a 'demon behind every bush', but I think it's equally dangerous to NOT recognize the reality of it ever, and to ignore the Holy Spirit's presence around every bush as well. I guess I would say I'm an immigrant (rather than a native) to this way of praying and thinking and dealing with what happens in my life and in the lives of those around me. And I'm still learning. Will put the book recommended on my 'to read' list.
nice topic.
the bible is clear about spiritual warfare….
ephesians 6: 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground
it's just up to us to embrace the victory that we have in Christ and the power of His Word. Eph 6:14-20
i know…because i've been delivered and set free from it myself.
i guess people are scared to talk about the supernatural and that is why most churches stay away from the topic.
i wonder…if people saw how "guardian angels" really look like…would they be terrified too if they found out we don't have lil cherubs with diapers flying around but fierce scary warrior angels hovering around us.
the supernatural realm is even more real than we are
Alison- I'd be interested to hear.
My church has a sort of underground collection of people that are involved in deliverance, prayer ministry, and other things that would be considered "charismatic". I've been to training events on spiritual warfare as well as read several books on the subject as well as personal experience with spiritual warfare, and am quite comfortable and familiar with the idea.
I think that the whole issue of spiritual warfare is something that the Church at large needs to address. Because, the more a church or person draws closer to Jesus, the more Satan is going to be there throwing everything he can to stop the progress and stop God's kingdom from coming to earth. Learning about this stuff has opened up a whole new depth to my own walk with Christ. It opened my eyes to startling questions like, "Can a Christian have a demon?" It's amazing as we learn about the power that evil and unclean spirits can have that the power these spirits possess is but a spec compared to the power of God.
I have physically felt the presence of demons/Satan. I don't like to talk about it. Amazingly, this post has made me not feel weird about it.
Great topic of discussion. I think the church (or the western church as Los says) ignores it a lot. I think they look at James 4:7 and see "pretend the devil doesn't exist and he will flee." Instead of "resisting" him it's like we just act like he ain't there. I am not saying give the jacka#% big mad props or anything – but he is out there. And his demonic little minions are too. And I think a big step in resisting him is accepting he exists and that he wants you to fail.
I recently started a study by Charles Stanley regarding spiritual warfare with a small group. I kid you not – 2 days after we officially started it – I have been tested again and again and found satan using those close to me to try to get me to sway. The horned little monkey doesnt want me digging in on this one I can tell.
Remember what Verbal Kint says when speaking of Keyser Soze – "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist." I think he convinced a LOT of churches of exactly that.
About a year ago I started having dreams about casting demons out of people. There was one instance where I was laying hands on a friend. I began speaking, with authority, to the demons that were in her…renouncing any wrong spirit in her to flee in the name of Jesus. Immediately I saw a manifestation…a blur of things come of her and linger beside me. I woke up from the dream and felt my arms being held down and LITERALLY had to cast demons out of my room that night. It was SO scary, yet SO freeing…because I knew that God has given us ALL authority over those demonic forces…by the power and the blood of Jesus.
It is real. There is a realm…a spiritual platform where angels and demons battle. We live on an earth that is spiritually oppressed by nature…this domain is satans and when we come against him fighting and living for our KING a battle emerges…a fight to win the souls of people. Ultimately we belong to Jesus, but satan will not stop…he will fight with EVERY force he has to cause others to fall to his feet…Ah, but HE WILL NOT PREVAIL.
Los, interesting topic. Thanks for starting the conversation. I would love to hear Andy's view on that some Sunday, but I'm not thinking BH Church is that environment (or is it?). I guess we'll hit it in small group someday.
I'd be happy to share! Do you have AIM or googlechat? Do you have a blog?
Yes, it should be talked about more. I think the hesitancy comes from the fact that most pastors are afraid of being put in a category belonging to flaky televangelists. So they just avoid the topic in a public way. That's a shame because the warfare is real and people should be taught to face this stuff Biblically instead of waffling between fear-avoidance and foolish bravado.
Not talked about at all in my current church, HOWEVER, spiritual warfare/supernatural stuff was a part of my upbringing. I've seen/heard some crazy stuff and thing the most important thing that people should know is that regardless of the struggle, attachment, demonic influence or possession; Jesus is greater.
Let me know when you and Crystal are ready to have church.
Thanks for the Driscoll heads up. I look forward to grabbing a copy
I've definitely had an experience with that personally – too long to post here – but, to answer your questions: (1) How much time and thought have you put into this matter? Likely, not enough; (2) have you ever experienced any sort of deliverance from demonic oppression? Yep. It was real. It was amazing. It was overpowering.
I have experienced this personally.. I pray in Jesus Name…they come for me when I am really tired, physically and emotionally..I have a great friend and his wife (a prayer warrior) they pray for my safety every night, to keep me out of the hands of the Evil One. This stuff is real!!!! I know if I let me guard down they will come for me. As I type this I can feel a chill down my back.. Satan doesnt want this to be talked about, he would rather it stay in the dark, and I pray in Jesus name for IT to be gone, now, and leave me in peace , you can count on Jesus, he can whip any thing out there riding or walking.
Kudos to Shifty for pulling a "Usual Suspects" quote in.
I try not to think about it too much because it scares me (just being honest). With my dad being from a pentecostal background, it was talked about it in my house. he has helped deliver people from demonic oppression both here and in south america , where he has gone on mission trips. my encounter with demonic oppression happened about 3 years ago. i was babysitting for a family, and the whole time at their house (which was 2 or 3 days) i felt so heavy, depressed, guilty, or something…it was so hard to explain and i had no idea what was going on. come to find out, the mother of the children was having an affair and their home was in turmoil. it all made sense after i learned that. the spirit of adultery was on that house so heavy i could literally feel it. they were a family from my church where my dad is the pastor. my dad later told my sister and i about seeing the spirit of adultery standing next to the woman one sunday at church. scary stuff, but real stuff.
i would say real intense demonic situations dont happen with everyone and people (including myself) are wary of the unknown. that is why it isn't a common discussion or topic in a lot of churches.
=)
Wow!
I'm impressed to see people talking about this topic.
I thought it was more filed under 'weirdo warning' with most folks… especially the ultra-cool ragamuffin readers.
Driscoll have a four-part series on the topic that he did with his leadership.
I found it to be very, very helpful and insightful.
You can find on the Mars Hill podcast.
I hate the cover to that book. Looks like GOOSEBUMPS.
On to topic, we are aggressively acknowledging that there are demons out there and they are latching themselves upon our people, by there own doing, family bonding and other avenues. We have a great deep healing ministry go on that is helping people be set free from their demons.
To be honest the whole thing freaks me out…as it should.
Yea. I'm going to get it too
Whoops!
I just left a comment about this, but now that I'm reading, I see you already pointed it out!
That series did wonders for helping me put some context around certain things going on around me!
Very, very good stuff!
Or you just call it something else.
Bring it.
It's so true.
My worry when we start to talk about demons and spirits, etc. is that we begin to separate some of these areas from the "spiritual" side of things. Abuse, addictions and so much more are intertwined with the spirituality of our lives. Even things such as eating; I know that the healthier I am in terms of my nutrition and daily exercise, the more alive I am spiritually. God seems to have even created us with "spirit" in a chemical sense through endorphins.
good
Was the demon bald and sexy and brown?
good point there.
Interesting you should bring it up, since a very learned and respected Dr. of theology breifly mentioned an encounter in a bible study at my church this week. Although it is not heavily discussed in my church, it is mentioned – ie; from those who have experienced it in Africa and in Cambodia.
I have experienced it only once as I was leading a study. A girl confided her past to me that invloved delving into witchcraft and a lot of other things. Believe me when I tell you that the hand of God was on me and the peace of God was with me as I prayed with her because she wanted away from those kinds of activities. There was an evil in the room with us that I had never experienced before, and I could feel it. After we were done and I was on my way home I lost it. I had to sit in my husband's lap for a while because I was so scared, seriously. He had to pray for me to get me to calm down. At the time, things like this were out of my comfort zone, just a fantasy, weirdo type stuff.
Satan is real and he is everywhere, but as Ryan says on REVERB – LOVE WINS!!!
JESUS IS ALREADY VICTORIOUS!
amen, los. amen.
This is a topic that significant portions of the church ignore.
It's easy to dismiss spiritual warfare and demons when they can be explained away as figments of one's imagination, or placed in the same category as outrageous teleevangelism and bad theology.
Plus, it can scare off people looking for a 'safe place' for their families to become involved with.
I think that's why many churches that emphasize Reformed theology or being safe for the whole family avoid the topic.
The churches that take the issue seriously (and I've been in some) won't win awards from seminarians or theologians. But they understand, Los, what you're saying: this is real and the church needs to help people face it and overcome it.
Of course, the real victory comes in and through Christ. But do we limit His power when we think His greatest enemies are fallen, sinful people who can be handled through sound preaching and political power?
You guys who? Heather and I?
The only thing you need to be Southern Baptist is giving to the cooperate program.
I love my Baptist roots.
But I am more scared of Demonic forces than I am the Baptists.
Yea. Southern Baptists get a bad “press wrap”
There are actually LOTS of drinking, demon casting, fun loving Southern Baptists.
So I guess…
Yea. I'm a southern Baptist.
I just believe in the devil.
JP Moreland just came and talked to my church staff about a couple of thoughts on this. We listened to him tell a dozen stories about how this all hits home for him… personal experiences and such.
But I've had no such experience. I'm a pastor, but sometimes I default to Sociologist. I feel like 99% of our brokenness has nothing to do with demons, angels, Satan, none of that… I see them all over the place in the New Testament, but so far I haven't personally had to deal with any of this.
Christ in us. We win, right? Whom shall we fear, right? He that is in you is greater than he who is in the world, right? Satan is limited (even crippled), right? I mean… the way people talk about Satan you'd think he's omnipresent, omniscient, and all the other omni's. He got his ass kicked at the cross. We win. Right?
I went to Fuller Seminary and studied with Dr. Kraft. His class really changed my life and my worldview, despite the fact that I'm Pentecostal and grew up with a strong belief in spiritual warfare. I would caution those who want to have a deep level healing session – make sure it's with a trustworthy, reputable person! Some ministries charge $$$ for it and it's NOT psychotherapy or counseling, so don't expect that. I would also recommend deep leveling healing for team working together long term.
Absolutely. I believe Jesus rescued me from the power of pornography.
Yeah, he did lose. Which – if you see satan as the epitomy of all things icky like greed, hate, selfishness… REVENGE… what does that say? Think about how dang mad he was at the cross…
I mean – I'm no satan – but i got a lot of those icky qualities myself and I know how I feel when I get my ass kicked at kickball or anything else… i wanna exact some revenge.
I think satan is spending a lot of time trying to do just that. Especially since we basicaly live in his playground (1 John 5:19)
And in my experience – it has gone something like this… Stray from Jesus – probably won't see much satan. Get close to Jesus and try to grow with God – probably gonna see a whole lot of satan.
I have encountered Demon possessed people.I have been a part of a deliverance encounter.
I would just like to say that greater is He who is in us then he that is in the world and we have that authority. So, demons and the devil are not as "real" as God, they are fallen created Angels. GOD is The author and finisher, has already WON and way more real then the devil or his demons.
I understand that line of thinking, but well, I'm chasing pretty hard after Jesus and I'm not necessarily seeing a whole lot of Satan. I see a whole lot of evil though, that's for sure…
I think its not talked about as much in the States b/c Satan does not manifest himself through physical means as much. Satan's sole purpose is to take us away from God. Often, in the States, given its Christian background, his physical appearance only pushes people toward God, which Satan does NOT want to do.
In other parts of the world, however, its a different story. After living in Nepal for awhile and visiting India, I have seen and felt Satan more often. People here invite him unknowingly into their homes when they worship the gods of Hinduism and Buddhism. I have talked with countless people who have seen demon possession or experienced it personally (both possessed and as the exorcist). Satan is something very very real in this part of the world. It has certainly changed my perspective on Satan. Everyday I pass by shrines and temples and stupas where the presence of Satan is very real and very scary. You can feel a heaviness and darkness in the air. Satan has a stronghold here. Thankfully, I keep Ephesians in mind and I know that God is faithful. Satan has already lost the war.
I think that there is the possibility for Satan to use something like abuse, just like there is the possibility to get a foothold from other types of sin. I don't think it is a foregone conclusion or that (and I don't think this is what you meant) that abuse inevitably leads to an attatchment of Satan's Demons upon the survivors life.
It's also no coincidence that as I decided to take a huge plunge and lay it all out in this comment, I have been struggling to type (even though I type everyday) and have made a bazzillion typos AND I'm having serious trouble posting this… Someone trying to shut me up???!
Try harder…
You will know the truth and the truth will set you free ~John 8:32
AMEN
Most recently, I took part in a relational healing small group for survivors of sexual abuse. I'm not gonna try and sugar coat it… It was one of the most horific things I have ever been through. You see, I could never admit or acknowledge that I AM a SURVIVOR, therefore, the enemy had a pretty strong grip on me that I had never even known. I was tormented and I fell FLAT on my face into a very ugly and dark place. But, thankfully the Lord does not foresake us and He was faithful to pick me up out of the pit I was living in. Needless to say, when that happened Satan just had to pay me some more personal visits. He began to try and suffocate me in my sleep… no joke! I knew it was him. I could feel his presence. And even as I slept I was fighting him off. I would try with all my strength to call out our Lord's mighty name and when I did, I could breathe again. By then I would be awake and finally able to take a much needed breath.
Lots of thought, but even still, not enough.
I can remember from the first steps I began to take as a child of God, Satan was on me stronger than he had already been. One particular night I had been reading a book on how to witness to Jehovah Witnesses (I had been raised as one), I not only felt his presence in my room, but I also heard his anger in the form of a loud angry fist crashing down over and over in the distance. I could almost see it as well. It became so intense that I could not even stay in my room. I was a baby Christian then and had no idea of the power that our great Lord gives us to rebuke Satan and his demons away. This was only one of several encounters I have had with Satan trying to grab a hold of me.
I never really put that much thought into this stuff until I got married to a spiritual-warfaring-woman. And boy is she amazing. I always learned about this stuff in church, but there wasn't really that much emphasis on it. Just like most churches, there was probably a bit of fear of being catagorized negatively. But I have definitely experienced demonic oppression on myself and around me. I dealt with lustful demons throughout my teenage years into my twenties. That was definitely an oppression and a long battle; the victory was worth the fight. Aside from that my wife and I have felt evil presences around us, but those demons are easily defeated by the name of Jesus.
My mom just lent us this book called The Vision by Rick Joyner and he explains this vision he saw into the spirit realm. I'm only on chapter 1, but so far it is good reading. It explains the methods the demons use to work against us and how a large portion of the people they use are Christians who are oblivious to the fact that they are allowing evil into their lives.
I thought you guys were Southern Baptist and I did not think Southern Baptists believed in practicing modern day healings and deliverences…set me straight please.
But you just don't believe satan is involved with the evil?
I'd agree that sayng satan is behind every bad thing we do is akin to saying "i can do whatever I want buddy – ever hear of grace?" while ya down your last shot of Remy Martin, snort a line of coke and kick the homeless guy outside your gated mansion while on the way to the casino with an "escort" on your arm.
Grace. Satan. Convenient excuses for the way we live, right? But I do believe in the existence of both of them and I think if we are seeking God on all aspects, and testing the spirits, we can start to discern what is satan and what is us.