The Great Hot Assistant Debate
[image from flickr...you have to see this entire ad. wow]
The discussion is touchy.
It is not politically correct.
It makes people get all fired up.
I don’t know the answer.
A few weeks ago a good friend of mine sat over coffee for a few hours and the topic of the “hot assistant” came up.
The question arose because a prominent pastor in our circle fell to sexual immorality.
His assistant would be classified in most male circles as “hot”.
Before you start screaming SEXIST! Or BIGOT! Or Matador!!!
OK. You can call me the last one.
I KNOW that a dude can fall for a looker or a not so looker.
And a chica can fall for some ugly dude.
Emotional affairs happen all the time.
But let’s be completely honest.
If I was to interview 2 assistants with the exact same skill set who would be spending massive amounts of time with me…
One looked like this and one looked like this…
I’m pretty sure @whittakerwoman would recommend numero dos.
Why?
Because I’m a male who thinks females are fine and would rather not even take that chance.
BUT LOS!!! YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE A GODLY MAN WHO ONLY HAS EYES FOR HIS WIFE!!!
I know. And I am a broken mess of a man.
If you are a pastor, and you have a hot assistant, I’m not saying your wrong.
This would mean that if you are beautiful, and have a skill set in administration, you are screwed.
I’m just opening the conversation.
And yes @katiepeters, this would mean I broke my own rule.
I mean you can’t help it if you work it out AND keep my schedule.
Is this the easy way out?
Or is this the smart way out?
Chat.
Los
RAIN IT DOWN
Because I am more like Numero Dos than Numero Uno, I have a mixed feeling in response to this post. I want to be hired for what I bring to the position and the fact that God has called me to it, pure and simple. I don't want to be hired as the marriage-protector because I'm not hot.
At the same time, I am glad that there are godly Christian men who have a clear enough understanding of temptation that they think about that factor.
I guess I don't know what I think.
Tough stuff.
I would surely agree with you on this politically incorrect stance.
I prefer "mature" assistants, for the additional reason to have someone who has wisdom and has a healthy relationship with her husband. That has worked great for me in the past for me. Now, I just wish I could afford to have one!
HA!!! COugars.
Let me just say this….back in the day. (when I was younger and thinnger)…..I was one of those "hot" assistants……and my personal relationship with the man, Jesus, made all the difference……I would always be able to turn conversations, compliments or whatever else a brotha or non-christian guy might be conveying…or thinking…to the light of the Lord….not necessarily by "preaching" but by my conduct, godly and holy, you just dont engage or go there, it all boils down to if you have a daily personal contact relationship with Jesus and walking with him.
Just my take from an old "hot assistant" LOL!
Great point
After the recent leader that fell… my pastor and I have decided that he is not going to have a female assistant period. There is no reason why a dude can not do just as good a job as an female in the role of personal assistant. Its kind of like saying that guys can't make good nurses.
Hmmmmmm. Interesting.
can be a good decision … you can actually travel with your assistant … but then there's Ted Haggard
I worked with a "hot" worship leader. I knew the wifey did not like sitting under her leading worship. Women vibe each other like crazy. (so do men. ha!) You are in trouble if you hire someone "hot." She may not have expressed it yet, but your wife does not like your assistant.
Preach. And your post hits at noon.
beautiful admins are screwed? bwahahaha. maybe it wasn’t an inteded pun.
I think hot may raise the chances. but I read an article on CNN the other day about a pastor who admitted an affair and the woman was UGLY SHE AINT GOT NO ALIBI!
keep the marriage red hot. fan the flames for Jesus. and maybe get a beer gut so the hot admin won’t be attracted to you.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Wow.
Wow.
Oooops.
Love it.
totally agree…the only hot assistant I'll ever get will be my wife.
My wife will never work for me. LOL
It was either Driscoll or Darrin Patrick who I heard talk about their personal assistant recently. They said their wife does not even care when they go out to lunch or coffee with them. They can even go out to conferences together and stay in the same hotel room, actually the church mandates it in their by laws, I believe. Yes, by now you guessed it, their personal assistants were dudes. Not saying it cant help, but why go for an old, unattractive lady when you have a perfectly unattractive dude who can perform all the duties that a female (attractive or unattractive) secretary can.
That would be my ideal
Spoken like a true 23 year old, fresh out of college speaking all theory!
JAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA
Agreed! I have never understood why pastors or ministry leaders would ever put themselves in a position to compromise. If we look for the closes Biblical example of a personal assistant we see Paul and Timothy or Paul and Titus.
Why can't a male be a personal assistant and a tutor that one day goes on into the ministry, maybe we need to change they way we view the role.
You may be right, but I don't think you can use those biblical examples to make your point. We can't read scripture outside the context of it's culture. Back then, in that culture, it would be completely unacceptable for a woman to have anywehre near that sort of authority. Today, it's common everywhere for women to hold those positions of assistants.
Those examples may show that it CAN be done, but wouldn't really be arguments that it SHOULD be done.
"Because I’m a male who thinks females are fine and would rather not even take that chance."
Sometimes potential weaknesses can be just as destructive as actual ones.
I personally think that "not taking the chance" is the responsible and faithful choice, Matador.
MAtador!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am so weak I have left number uno open on my browser…pray for me.
If you are a pastor or ministry leader, how about not hiring hot assistants and hiring same sex interns to work for you for a year or two doing your admin stuff? Give a guy or girl just out of college a chance to learn from you and work with you hand in hand. It gives them a chance to grow, you a chance to disciple and develop them. Just a thought.
As for the hot assistant, stop lying to yourself and have someone else help you in the hiring (or firing) process.
Interesting. But most dudes I know would miss the occasional under the radar flirt? Or maybe they wouldn't?
probably . . . but more than likely that same dude is getting the under the radar flirt elsewhere already.
I know a few pastors who would consider a same-gender assistant right out of college to be a "hot assistant."
Just sayin.
peace | dewde
No one said hot FEMALE assistants.
HAHA. Agreed bro
I think this is a great idea. I am that 23 yr old guy right out of college looking for some mentoring. What better way to get some work, get mentored by a great leader, and not be that hot assistant. I think it works out well to be honest. Now if only leaders would care enough to mentor young guys this would work.
My first job out of college was on the road assistant to Josh McDowell. Yeah he is a bit old school, but man did I learn a ton of valuable stuff. He has been hiring interns/male assistants for over 35 years of ministry. It was a great thing for both of us. Sometimes he hired guys that only lasted 3 months because they sucked at office work, so you would have that to deal with, but for the most part it has worked brilliantly.
This one thing I will pledge. I will mentor.
Why are you insisting on female assistants?
Listen, I am not trying to be holier than thou but I know the complete depravity of my heart. There is lust there and it is only by the sanctifying work of Jesus Christ is that cancer getting scrape away.
I just committed myself to a church plant in downtown Fort Worth, Texas and submitted myself to the eldership process. I am a single dad of 34 years old but I told the church planter,
"I expect to be held to the exact same standards as the married men in this church."
-and-
"If I have to have an assistant, that assistant will be male or I will have none at all."
I know my own pitfalls. More importantly, I know Scripture. I know that God doesn't merely suggests but absolutely, terrifyingly promises all throughout the book of Jeremiah that if you do not take care of His sheep, He will step in, remove you, care for them until He raises another shepherd.
PREACH. Wow dude. I had no idea wyou were a single dad.
I can almost wrap my head around God's grace.
What I can't wrap my head around is while I worked in pornography and living as a hypocrite and blasphemer, the God of the universe sees fit to bless me with an incredible son.
Ever want to know what Jesus meant by "Sun shines on good and evil and rain falls on just and unjust" (Matthew 5:45)? It's this guy in spades.
What I said to Benji (above) also applies here… I know a few pastors who would consider a same-gender assistant to be a "hot assistant."
peace | dewde
I promise. As an artist and a photog, guys are not hot at all
I can see how certain guys are handsome but that is because people have told me, "That dood is handsome" and I respond, "orly".
Our church has a reputation for hiring hot, single, 20-something women as assistants. There's even an underground joke that if you're a hot girl who wants a job at our church, they'll hire you, and then hire someone to be your superior. It's almost laughable. And it's shocking that none have ended in affairs. But it's certainly dangerous territory.
I think we'd all feel a lot better if the staff would hire same-sex assistants or even "mature" assistants, but I think they feel that the former wouldn't be competent in a nurturing role, and the latter would just be, well, not "cool" enough for our church, I suppose. But having a giant blind spot that leads to temptation and adultery isn't very cool, either.
I sincerely wish our leadership would get a clue, make the uncomfortable, necessary changes, and protect the Bride that Christ died to save.
I think you are hitting on something that NO ONE would ever talk about.
Another issue to think about is this: If it is determined that all assistants be same-gender, does that mean the entire staff needs to be same-gender, "just in case"? How far does this go, and is there a slippery slope that could lead to women being shut out of ministry? I'm not saying I think that is the case or not, but I wanted to at least bring up that as part of the discussion
Very slippery. Some men spend more time with their assistants then their own wives.
3 hours at home a night with the kids.
8 hours all day at work without them.
Just sayin.
AGREED
Do you wonder what the "hot" assistant has to deal with, is it not also slightly her responsibility to make sure it never gets to that point? I understand that guys have this problem, but what about the women who are the problem, most likely they know they look good, so she should be trying to not let things get out of hand. is it her fault that she looks good?
Not saying that you should totally trust a hot assistant to keep her self in check, but it takes 2 people to have an affair. I am glad that you guys know your limits, thats awesome! But the women of the church, hot or not, need to step and help the guys out by not allowing any work relationship to get out of hand.
It takes 2 to tango. True
Just because an assistant is "attractive" doesn't mean that she is more likely to instigate an affair or immorality. It has more to do with attitude than looks. Should the male boss just not be around other women than his wife?
I was in on this discussion last time it came around. There are some interesting new ideas coming out this time. Here are my thoughts this time around.
Not hiring attractive females in the church because it’s possibly a temptation of something feels like setting up hedges to me – it’s a step away from being a Pharisee. It’s also unfair to them and puts the blame on them in a way.
I really liked the idea of having others who are helping you hire people – seems like something we should always have in place. Hire the best person for the job, period.
As a leader in the church, it is YOUR responsibility to do the right thing. So, if the right person that is hired is someone that might provide temptation, do the responsible thing and don’t spend time alone with them, have other people around, stay accountable, open, transparent, and public. I think this is something that can be done right, but it isn’t always.
I also think there is a sub-agenda in some cases that some well-meaning pastors think that part of being successful looks like having a “beautiful” assistant – instead of potentially hiring anyone else. Folks, we’re not the rest of the world, let’s not measure success by what it looks like.
Final thought: your church ought to be a place that acknowledges all the time that no one is perfect – there is no one holy, not even one – we all need a closer relationship with God to help us do the right things, and we need a supporting community around us to help keep us honest and heading in the right direction. If this is your church, problems like this won’t tend to be as much of a problem.
Great points.
Your church should seek to acknowledge.
"Not hiring attractive females in the church because it's possibly a temptation of something feels like setting up hedges to me – it's a step away from being a Pharisee. It's also unfair to them and puts the blame on them in a way."
Thank you. This is like saying… "I don't want to exercise self control or be responsible for my own thoughts/actions so I'll just do avoidance instead of dealing with my heart."
Seriously people… you can say all you want that men make great admins too… and I'm here to tell you as a former hiring person… BULL. Women are wired differently than men and the percentage of men that can fulfill that role as well are very low…
It's like complaining about how women dress in your church but as men who head corporations who produce these clothes, not taking the blame for what you put in the stores for them to wear.
How about we tap into the power of the Holy Spirit and GROW UP. Have boundaries, yes… but stop being so religious about it.
I have met my pastor in public… I won't meet him at his house alone. I've spent hours on the phone with him, but his wife knows me very well. You either trust your spouse or you don't.
Stop saying it's because someone is "hot" or not. Most affairs are because people are looking for validation that they are not getting from their own spouse, or their own insecurity issues. Deal with your marriage, deal with your own heart. It doesn't matter if your assistant has a hot bod… what matters is your heart!
I as WOMAN have had to deal with these thoughts… in my past I had some leaders around me that were adorable… and a marriage I wasn't happy with… it lead to things I wouldn't repeat now. I have leadership now that are all honestly very nice looking dudes… but I'm not "attracted" to them like that… because my heart is right. BECAUSE MY HEART IS RIGHT.
Get your heart right. Cling to Christ. Cling to your mate… then you will see that assistant as your sister/brother and be right before God. Before it gets to a place where you fall, your heart is already the issue. Aren't we supposed to have self control? What happened to that part of the fruit of the spirit? It doesn't say fruits… it says FRUIT. We can't pick and choose… we either have it all or we don't.
Amen.
Ha! Thanks, but I came with you job, you didn't have to hire me. And don't worry, I have a hot boss rule, too ; )
katie
Zing. Amazing.
hahahaahaha…. oooo burn!
This made me giggle.
peace | dewde
Always hire for character, regardless of the role. I have hired and fired a lot of people, you can train almost anyone to do almost any job, but it takes years to develop a Godly character.
mike and i already had this convo. in person. so i didn’t look completely like an a hole.
but not hiring someone because they’re hot, yet totally capable and quite possibly called to do a job is getting in the way of someone’s calling….quite possibly.
i’m a married woman. and i even sometimes have coffee or a meal with another man who isn’t my husband!!!!
why?
because my hubs and i communicate. he knows who i think is hot and i would never have coffee with that guy. i also know there may be a person who thinks i’m hot (guys are pretty easy to read, sorry) and i’d never have coffee with that guy either. or if the hubs just says “no”…
i refuse to allow legalism and FEAR to drive decisions. fear if what if what if what if.
my marriage is in the process of being protected because WE TALK. we talk about people who are hot. he knows the first guy i’d go after if he’d die. i can’t have coffee with that person.
we cover our marriage in this RESPECT and KNOW we are not immune from issues. i think it is more heathy to talk and have boundaries (and maybe banishing hot women from your daily life is one of them) but male and female relationships can flourish and be holy and fulfilling outside of marriage too.
let the arrows fly.
I'm having coffee this morning with a "hot" married female.
But I should say, my wife and I talk everyday.
I have very healthy relationships with some very hot women.
I also almost fell into a inappropriate relationship with a very unhot woman 5 years ago.
I think our generation of Christian leaders almost tend to rebel against boundaries because of what boundaries looked like to us growing up.
It just goes to show that, great conversation, healthy boundaries, and great sex with your spouse still won't deter me from fighting like hell if the right person slipped a number to me.
But that might just be me.
Great marital communication can only help so much.
So. can we hang out when I get to Franklin in 10 days.
i think if those things exist in marriage – plus ultimate respect – it would be really hard to screw stuff up. not impossible, just really difficult.
when you are in franklin i will not shower or wear make up as to be as unhot as possible. dont want you to stumble bro.
Actually I like that.
crap. well i will just look really hot to look unhot then.
But I like that too.
damnit.
I just grew a little reading that. Thx Anne.
peace | dewde
Would you please explain more? I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. These three thoughts (the two on the end vs the one in the middle) seem somewhat contradictory to me but I'm probably just not connecting them correctly:
* "not hiring someone because they're hot, yet totally capable and quite possibly called to do a job is getting in the way of someone's calling….quite possibly."
* (in reference to a man you think is hot) "i would never have coffee with that guy"
* "i refuse to allow legalism and FEAR to drive decisions"
If you wouldn't have coffee with someone you think is hot and that's where you draw that line, wouldn't similar reasoning indicate that it's OK for some guys (or women) not to work with someone they think is hot? That it isn't so much out of fear but possibly out of wisdom and knowledge of one's own weaknesses?
hotness is subjective.
let me rephrase: i would not have alone time with **someone i am attracted to** whether they are hot or not.
some of my male friends i spend time with are hot.
but i am not attracted to them.
and i would totally hire a hot assistant – male or female – if he or she was the best person for the job. only if i wasn't attracted to them.
I'm concerned about a legalistic point of view as well. It falls in the same camp of needing to have another person in all meetings so it's not just male/female. And where is the line drawn?
I've taken the same approach as Anne. Guys are ridiculously easy to read. If I'm catching a vibe, I start putting lots of space in between. Or I'll suggest your wife might be a better person to ask advice on that topic. Or another consultant might be a better fit for that project.
Keith has access to my Twitter account & DM's, text messages, etc. and I have access to his. We don't play "big brother" but it's nice to know there's a level of transparency in how we connect with others. We talk about everything & are aware of our vulnerabilities.
Keeping your attention focused on your spouse is where everything starts. If that's not solid, it doesn't matter how hot/unhot your assistant is. People find ways to be distracted elsewhere.
Thanks for the clarification. I think you hit on a key distinction. For many of us, it might not be so much about hotness but more about attraction. Hotness is almost purely physical. Attraction can occur on so many different levels but almost all of them are rooted in our emotions.
We all know that physical affairs usually start as emotional affairs. When you guard yourself against emotional affairs, the physical presence (aka hotness) of others becomes less of an issue.
But having said that, lust is a real challenge for some people (including me) and that is more or less purely physical.
So I guess what I'm saying is that I don't really know the answer except that each of us is instructed to guard our heart above all else.
Yes. I think the word "hot" is getting in the way here.
"Attraction" seems to be placing you in the same camp.
So if there was an "attraction", and they were the best person for the job, you would not hire them.
I think that is what you are saying.
And I think that is what I am saying. Except I'm using "hot" and "attraction".
i think we all know ourselves…and first, for the most part, chris just laughs when i double check with him on meeting with a male (alone) because the kind of guy i'm attracted to doesn't really live in church world.
anyway…i dont know if i would hire someone i'm attracted to. i dont ever see myself hiring anyone. so i've never thought about it. would i work directly for someone i was seriously attracted to (rather than someone that was attractive?) probably not the wisest thing. but who cares if it's your boss. what if it's someone you end up working with if you take the job that you never even knew about? what if they start working there after you work there? what if you run into them at the grocery store as a complete stranger?
i am going to go hide in my basement and shut the rest of the world off now.
guard your heart. and live your life. peace.
I think the line between "hot" and "attraction" is the heart of the matter. We can't control "hot" coming into view (or even becoming an employee if the best person for the job happens to be an attractive woman or hormone soaked 22 year old guy — yeah women are visual and think about sex too). We see hot everywhere we look. It is in how long we soak "hot" in and allow it to linger in our minds eye that is the true test of our hearts. When "hot" catches hold and morphs into fantasy, attraction is born. That, IMHO is when we cross the line…
Let's take the emotion out of this debate for a moment.
I have a real issue with money, specifically spending it. I have a hard time going to the mall, Best Buy, even home depot, without buying something, anything. I don't know why I have this issue but I do. I know it. About the only place I can go without being tempted to buy stuff is the grocery store. I hate grocery stores. Can't stand 'em! But that's a whole different issue of mine.
Awhile ago, I decided to avoid stores as much as possible. Is it stupid for me to avoid Best Buy? Am I being legalistic by setting that boundary? Am I acting in fear? Or am I recognizing my own issue and avoiding a situation that might lead me into temptation that I personally cannot handle?
I don't know the answer but, whatever it is, I suggest that it's no different than dealing with hot assistants, co-workers, bosses and others. Just a bit less emotionally charged.
I appreciate your sharing, Dave, but the TV you're not buying isn't being unfairly discriminated against. It's a product, not a human being created in Christ. As a woman, I should be hired or not hired solely for my character and qualifications for the position, and not for whether or not my manager finds me attractive (unless I'm applying to be a model). My responsibility as a sister in Christ is to dress modestly and interact with my brothers appropriately, but to not even get a position for which I'm qualified in the first place?? The only place I can think of to shield you from all such temptation would be a monastery, not the local church. I don't mean that in a sarcastic way, but simply as the only option I can think of.
Is it really discrimination to avoid putting someone else in a potentially horrible situation?
i totally and completely agree with this, anne. of course.
i sometimes wonder if i am numero dos in this situation even though in my mind i feel more like numero uno … i am not an assistant but i have never had wives of men i respect ever have an issue with me… whether it is meeting alone in a office or riding around in a car alone. is it because i am fat and ugly? no… i know that ain't true
it is because the men i trust enough to be in this situation with — are talkers. they talk to their wives. their wives know their husbands weaknesses, etc. i admire couples like this – especially as a single woman. i wrote about a similiar topic a few months ago… and i think it applies again now.
http://www.pinkhairedgirl.net/?p=2659
Having been the (relatively) #1 assistant before I was married, and now being the “wife” and probably closer to #2 assistant now, I think it’s both the easy and smart choice to choose #2.
Men, your wives will love you MORE for choosing #2.
Simple and true.
Maybe if you or your spouse can’t handle the thought of having a “hot” assistant around, YOU should be the one that doesn’t get the job. Not them.
Let me know when you are hiring an assistant.
I'll make sure not to apply.
Cause you know you want this fine piece of of Panamanian bootie.
That is the best answer I have read so far
agreed
If you hire partially based on looks, you’re bound to dismiss any thoughts about hooking up in the future rather than fight them – hire the hottie and keep your boundaries.
Notice I said, "I insist on this for me."
I never want to make a rule for myself and then expect others to follow. That is religion.
All I want is to be above reproach (1 Timothy 3:2).
I think people should list some boundaries "in place" or "practices" they use/do…..
i.e. (quote)
Our staff knows we have a no exception rule that a male and female can not be alone. For ex. if a male staff member or any male is in the office when I pull into the parking lot I have to wait to go in until someone else arrives. This is a very clear boundary.
to help those who don't have anything specific in place or should add to their list…..
See I don;t like that rule. But that is just me.
But I also don't want to fall. So maybe I need that rule.
We had a no lunch together no car rides alone together rule at my office. Which made it super difficult as a female to establish friendship relationships with my band, my production team, etc. And when you run a business with volunteers, those relationships are essential to success.
For me personally, I choose to have my assistant be a male. Not just for the reasons expressed here but mostly because I personally work better with another dude. Also, I like not having to think about issues like being alone together, etc. I don’t think it’s wrong to have a hot female assistant if you’re a guy, probably just takes more thought and caution.
I will say though, my 300 pound, bearded male assistant knows how to work it. He’s hot to somebody.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
In an intensive I took with a room of about 200 fellow church and worship leaders a guest speaker, crap on my face for not remembering his name, as he was closing let me give you two pieces of advice: 1. Your relationship with your God and your family are most important above all else. 2. Never hire an assistant that if you were single you could see yourself dating.
i hate it when i don't post right!
ok… take 3.
Dear el Matador..
two things i hate.
1. quality not so pretty people who don't get the respect of recognition they deserve for a job well done. they can't help they are a bit homely.
2. people being critical and catty towards hot people who do great work… just because they are hot. who cares!!! they were born pretty! leave them alone. so what they are hot and smart and can run circles around you… do something about it and change yourself…
whew… glad i said all that:)
anyway… one thing is true… not sexist… but true. pretty people ( men and women) who are good at their jobs tend to get ahead because the people they do business with pay more attention to how people look and carry themselves… oh there can be other motivating factors but no matter… thats the way it happens… good or bad.
friend of el Matador…spence
Re: 2: I don't think it would be wise for me to have any female assistant under the age of 65, only because when I was in sin, I was hooking up with any willing female whether she looked more like Ugly Better or Megan Fox.
I think it is a debate that can never be won. There are some people who can honestly handle the "hot" assistant, but there are some that can't (or shouldn't). But the Word of God says that we shouldn't do anything that 'causes another believer to stumble. Is it possible that a person forcing their standards on another person can cause them to stumble? Or is it possible that even watching another person hanging out with a person of the opposite sex can cause someone to stumble because of their own upbringing, or immaturity?
This is why I don't know that this can ever be solved. I think ever person should do what they know best for themselves, because you know yourself best. But, be sure to carry each other's burdens and not cause your brother to stumble.
Well, here's the thing: If your concern is that you're going to put the moves on a hot assistant, then you shouldn't hire a hot assistant.
Aside from that, the point is moot. For most people, the relationship is going to be emotional before it is physical regardless of what your assistant looks like. You're using two extremes here. You could wind up hiring a woman that looks-wise is a plain jane. But time and familiarity in many cases can breed attraction.
I work in a company where 90% of the people in our building are women. I've worked here for nearly 12 years. In that time, there have been women working here who most guys would say "meh" to when seeing for the first time. But over time, their personality and other qualities can make them as "hot" (for a lack of a better word for this example) as anybody else. At the same time, there have been women who are eye wideners at first glance but after time would make any dude that isn't led around by the little man between his legs want to run for the hills because these women are so vapid and uninteresting.
It's really all about establishing boundaries. That's not legalism. That's just common sense.
Assuming for a moment however, that you're considering hiring an assistant for your post-Buckhead career, why does it have to be a woman? Why not look at this as an opportunity to mentor a potential worship leader (and yes, I know there are female worship leaders, but the vast majority of them are male) and hire some kid just out of college who would benefit greatly from your experiences?
Great topic. Tough to bring out in the open. One my wife have had over the years. Never #1, that would never fly in our marriage. We have an incredible marriage, but we are aware of what can happen. In fact I am married to a #1. Even after five kids she is slimmer than when we got married. The one guy said he left the page of #1 up. If you hire her you get to look at her all day and carry on conversations. It’s almost as if the countdown has started. It’s only a matter of time. Perhaps not. But why take a chance. Why not stay as far away as you can from the possible point of no return (James 1:14-15). Plus I hear what some are saying. If you are a ‘hot’ woman, you could always be an assistant for the a female worship leader or female children’s director, etc. Part of my advice for guys would be to hire an assistant at least 10 years older. I realize you could still have an emotional affair, the odds of wrecking your ministry go way down.
In the end I’m with Jason, the only hot assistant I will ever get is my wife. That means I can go out of town and spend the night in a motel with my assistant. Not a bad deal.
I think looks are often indicative of personality. I like to hang around fun, active people and it just so happens to be that some (maybe all) of the people we hang out with are hot. If you're afraid to hire someone because they're good looking, then you should be afraid to go to North Point or Buckhead church! AND, you should be afraid to have any friends that are good looking! In fact, you should probably just not leave your house! Nobody is immune, but come on… If you're going to get up on someone, you're going to get up on someone! Maybe I'm naive but it doesn't happen by accident! You have to make a decision to cheat whether it's with your secretary or the Barista at Starbucks or your wife's best friend. It's not an accident!
By the way, my wife is freaking H.O.T. and I see her naked every day!
As a person with little familiarity with ministry but years under my belt in secular business I am amazed by this conversation (as would most of my atheist, agnostic and non-Christian friends). I could go on a rant here about the blatant discriminatory nature of this chat, or the burden that it places on young women to be "just pretty enough" to not be ugly but "not too pretty" to become a "threat", but I won't go there. Instead, I figured I'd comment on what a horrible witness it is to those outside the faith that people who claim to have been born again, a new creation in Christ, cannot hire a talented young woman because they are scared of themselves and are taking facing/fighting temptation out of the hands of the Helper and into rules, processes and workarounds. Doesn't say much for how we are different, or the power of the cross to create a new wineskin. Sure we are all tempted. But I'm with Jarrett. When faced with a temptation so strong you think you might falter, step down go on retreat and find out where you are off track.
(sigh of relief) I love everything you said. When I first started in ministry at 19 years old, I wore glasses all the time instead of contacts to "de-pretty" and look dorkier, smarter, etc., so #1 the wives of the guys I worked with wouldn't hate me and #2 so they'd take me seriously around the office. No matter how far we think we've come since the 20th century, there's still a huge sexism issue in the work place, especially in the south where "good 'ole boys" rule everything.
And in the church, even more liberal churches, the men still rule.
Taking the scripture at its word regarding male leadership (I know there are theological debates up the ying yang on this, but let's just operate from the assumption that it is a truism) there is a big difference between men taking the lead and creating a culture of fear regarding sin. Didn't Jesus already win that battle? And isn't our job to work out our salvation by allowing ourselves to be transformed into His image in order to be the Kingdom in a dark world? There is so much discussion here about "protecting ministries" at all costs – even the calling and aspirations of talented young women. Sorry, I just don't buy it. In fact, I wonder if the church created a standard that involved stepping down from ministry at the point of ongoing lust (not the initial thought, which we all have, but a prolonged sexual/emotional investment in the lustful thoughts) rather than waiting for the sex scandal, it might not lead people to dig deeper, cry out harder and pursue spiritual disciplines earlier and with more fervor since they would actually have something to lose. Instead, the "I'm a man, of course I am going to fantasize about my hot assistant so I can't hire her" culture prevails. But what if that beautiful, talented, Godly woman is actually a gift from God meant to show you that you've got some work to do? A shortcoming that God wants to work out in you? (Ummm….did I say that out loud…)
I think guys (in general this is guys, but not always) need to realize that there is power, sexuality and other issues going on. As a leader if you have an issue leading someone, then you need to step down from leadership (not just of that person, but from leadership). In most cases, I don't believe this is about protecting marriage, I think it is about protecting power. If it wasn't then the offending party (often the male) would be the one removed from the position.
Agreed Adam. The lust (or fear of lust) and the associated fear of losing their seat because of it is not freedom. It is like an addict who removes themselves from the drugs or drink but never pursues a program of recovery to get to the heart of the "why" of their addiction. Sure they put down the substance, but they are left with the same old obsession. These people (known as dry drunks) tend to either 1) become very angry people who tend to lash out, 2) choose another "safer" obsession, i.e. working too much, eating, etc. or 3) succumb to the obsession and start using again. If I am in Christian ministry and going to work every day scared that today is the day I might succumb to falling for/sleeping with my assistant, the issue runs way deeper than how pretty she is…and focusing on the object of the desire rather than the heart of the issue or removing the issue altogether might be counterproductive. Maybe that beautiful, capable assistant is a gift from God sent to let you know you have a problem that He wants you to address…
Wow.
I in no way can refute anything you are saying.
You are much brighter than I in more ways than I care to count.
Very well put.
I'm learning so much in one day.
BTW, try to find the comment of my current atheist hot friend who commented on here earlier.
Oh. And I do wonder if you think the enemy works harder at destroying the church than he does any other business.
I don't know the answer, just wonder if the weight of what the church or ministry has to offer would bring a harder attack from the enemy. Although we obviously have been washed by the blood and are redeemed.
I think it might, Carlos. But I also think that the church has resources (prayer, the Holy Spirit, the Word of God, etc.) that are not readily available outside of it. I sense a broad, kind of sneaky overarching (and unintended) deception hiding here. Without malice, I think we would love to have our cake and eat it too – redeemed, but not sooo redeemed that we can't occasionally do what we want and chalk it up to being a victim of human depravity ala "the Christ in me is not fantasizing about my assistant, but that pesky depraved heart is definitely enjoying the view." We can't always do what we hope to do (as Paul says in that rather convoluted scripture) but we know (if we are really being honest with ourselves) when we are applying our free will in the wrong direction. Blaming pretty girls rather than our own misplaced desires is, I think, a bit of a cop out.
Joan: I'm sorta late to the party, here, but I like everything you've said here. On a somewhat related note… You say you have "somewhat little familiarity with ministry." I've seen your comments in other blogs and they just exude wisdom. Is seminary in your future? Just sayin.
Hi Bevery: Thank you for the kind words, but trust me when I say that any modicum of wisdom that comes from anything I write or say comes from He that is in me not she (read me) whose default without the Spirit is definately in the world. How lucky we to believe in a God that actually will transform us if we let Him! As for seminary, I am studying for my PhD in Organizational Leadership right now at a school with a committment to Christian scholarship. Soon after I became a Christian in 2003 I thought I might want to go, but was told by a wise mentor that one should only go to seminary if the calling is so strong that you "can't not go". I've felt that sort of calling, but not in the direction of seminary. But that's enough about me.
I went over to your blog and love your writing. Was thrilled to read your background and learn we have some things in common – a background in PR and recent move to writing on more personal topics. Would love to connect with you and learn more about your aspirations. I've spent the last few years learning about the both the creative and the business side of publishing world, which can be daunting for folks without big names or big connections. I don't pretend to be a guru, but would be happy to share what I've learned if you think it would help you move forward in pursuing that dream. I'll follow you on Twitter so we can connect. I'm @joanpball.
i think its a matter of the man. and how he acted in his flesh before he was a christian. every man knows how he resoonds to a hot female, to be frank, some respond in a more pig-ish way than others. some had lots of self-control post-christian, some didn't. if i man knows he's prone to this than maybe he should not have the "hot" assistant.
but its all about boundaries. i was an assistant to a pastor for a year and a half and i loved it. but the pastors at the church never met with females alone unless their door was completely open, and even if it was more personal the door was still atleast cracked or they went to a public place.
another thing i loved was that they would ALWAYS take their wives phone calls around me. no matter what we were talking about and no matter how serious. i think this is a real way of showing the assistant "hey, i'm married and i love this woman" and it was gives the wife confidence i would think.
I am an assistant and I can't imagine my employment status hinging upon whether I'm too attractive or not attractive enough. Base it on my qualifications, my personality, and my skill set.
Don't base it on my looks.
That being said… I'm also a wife. And I can tell you that I'd pick #2 just like Heather, ALL DAY LONG. Hypocrite? Maybe.
Heather laughed.
I've never seen anyone have an affair who liked and loved their wife and was sexually satisfied. Some commenters have pointed out that there's a slant towards the hot admin here, as in if something happens it was obviously her fault because she's hot. While I want to defend hot women, being one (and having worked in ministry for 5 years), I have to say you're sort of right. Usually, women have most of the power when it comes to sex in a relationship. That's unfortunate, but true. But that goes back to my first sentence. If you're wife makes sure you're sexually satisfied, mentally satisfied, emotionally satisfied….that makes a difference, right? And your wife will take care of you if you take care of her, right? Or am I an idealist?
I just don't think it is that simple. That places the blame on the wife (or husband) that is not cheating, instead of the person that is cheating. There may also be other issues, but the issue at hand is the cheating. And the one in a relationship that is cheating is the one that is sinning.
I get what you're saying and completely understand, but all women (hot or not) also have a share in the responsibility of the working relationship. I think I'm pretty and I'm an assistant to a man, but I dont flaunt what the good Lord gave me in the office. Dressing modestly and cloaking yourself in purity of spirit, body & mind goes a long in way in keeping the office relationship from turning into something more. So, while I don't agree with hiring a woman based on the fact that she's a numero dos, I have to say, do what you have to do to stay in right relationship with God.
Each person has unique struggles and temptations. Only you, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, can make the right decision when it comes to hot woman temptations. The boundaries you draw and the decisions you make might look foolish to others — even or perhaps especially to other believers — but that shouldn't deter you from making the wise decision.
Joan's comment above about how secular eyes would look on this discussion doesn't take into account the fact that Satan doesn't usually go around attacking businesses, but is quite active in trying everything he can to smear and discredit the church. Along the same lines, if the CEO of a company had an affair with his or her assistant, the CEO might get fired (but maybe not), but the business itself would probably not be directly affected.
The fall of a pastor into overt sin has ramifications far beyond his or her personal life. One of our enemy's favorite plays is "strike the shepherd and the sheep will scatter." Its like a Joe Montana-Jerry Rice slant pattern, works nearly every time. So the discussion here is important because there are lives – souls – at stake.
At the same time, and with all due respect El Matador, I don't think the discussion is well-framed with this choice between uno or dos. I understand its hypothetical and crafted to spark discussion, but deciding how "hot" a woman is (or how "hot" it's okay for her to be) feeds into the objectification of women that some have already railed against here. Fact is, most women are (or can be) quite attractive physically, and further infidelity usually occurs on the emotional level before it occurs on the physical level (if it ever goes that far at all). No matter how physically attractive a female assistant may or may not be to you, if you bond with her emotionally in a way and to a degree that supplants the emotional bonding between you and your wife, you have a big problem, whether you ever get your freak on or not.
So, if you are going to be in a situation where your assistant is more of an apprentice, maybe you should be like Paul and choose a Silas. If the relationship is going to be more detached, it would be safer to choose a female.
In any case, there can be no rule beyond follow what the Holy Spirit tells you (and I mean a plural "you" including your spouse, accountability partners, etc.) to do. Anything else is religion, which means not following God and making up our own rules and ways. Those ALWAYS wind up hurting people.
Peace,
Mike
Wow! Excellent! Amen!
Well put. But I think uno is hot and dos is not.
It's me.
Not you.
And your comment was amazing.
That is why I blog.
To learn from people like you.
Have to admit, I disagree big time. To say a woman shouldn't get a position because she's hot is so disrespectful of women in general. It places the woman in the temptress role that a man just has to run away from. As if a woman can help if she's attractive. That being said, at the church I work at we have very strict rules between men and women. We cannot go out to lunch with a person of the opposite sex if there is just two of us present. We cannot even ride in a car with one another if there's just two of present. And our pastors never travel alone. They always have their buddy (of the same gender) with them. These rules allow me (an attractive single woman) to interact daily with married men without anything to worry about. So I think it is absolutely important to hire the best qualified person regardless of age, gender, or level of hotness. But make sure you have accountability rules in place to guard people's hearts and marriages.
But I think that is just as disrespectful.
TO think that a Christian man and woman cant be in a car together without wanting to jump each other or to be above reproach stews of as much legalism as the latter.
But then again.
I did say I don't know.
And I guess that is why we are discussing.
I can see how you would take that rule as legalism. It's not made for fear of people jumping each other in a car
It is however more of the above reproach thing. If someone sees their pastor in a car alone with someone other than their wife that would be weird. Also, it limits conversations to those at work and not outside of it. I think there's some sort of balance here without basing your hiring decisions on whether a person is attractive or not. Although as I've been thinking about it, if I was on the other side of this (being the wife of the guy with the assistant) I might think differently. Not because I don't trust him, but because their are some really dangerous and crazy women out there 
Really? I only have one comment: Grow up!
Temptation doesn't enter in because you've got a hot assistant. Temptation doesn't come in because you're not getting what you want from your wife. Temptation enters in because we are all convinced that someone else or something else can make us happy. That's why affairs happen, because we believe that our happiness is caused by someone else.
The problem with this belief is that it keeps us going from relationship to relationship, job to job, situation to situation believing that the next one will be the one that makes us happy.
It doesn't. It won't. It can't. The problem is with us, and in any new relationship, any new job, any new situation, we take ourselves with us.
So, grow up. Accept responsibility for your own happiness, and for the commitment to your family. Stay committed to being grateful for what you have.
And hire the BEST PERSON FOR THE JOB!
Lest you fall.
A bit idealist, but I understand.
I'm still figuring it out for me.
I wish Christians would stop using the term "fell" into sin. We don't stumble onto/into sin, as if to say "whoops, I fell". If we could banish that term and say more honestly we "chose" sin (in every area, but especially the sexual infidelity one, and esp with pastors, it seems), that might make some kind of difference in the way we look at temptation and our choices.
geeze los, @katiepeters twitter page is failwhale'n cause of you. maybe there IS something to this…
This is a heart issue, not a gender issue. Period. Anne makes great points about the respect and communication in your marriage. That is where it has to start. If that relationship is healthy, you will build in "heart remedies" that protect your heart and marriage rather than create rules based upon gender. I believe reducing this to gender breaks God's heart. He created men and women in his likeness and he created us to live in community with one another.
As church leaders we've got to get to the root issue. For decades we've created rules out of fear… that's legalism isn't it? And frankly our rules haven't really protected us very well.
Well put. I obviously know you guys and appreciate what and how you do what you do.
It's just obviously an issue that is NOT discussed out loud. Hopefully people will hear what you guys do and how you do it.
Maybe it's the word "hot".
"attracted" is a better word.
if you know you have a problem with being distracted around hot girls/guys then it's a no brainer. if you want to be distracted, then its a no brainer as well.
figure out how God has called you to live your life.
so get your a** off of your shoulders, and do the right thing.
I have been the "hot assistant" before… I was young. I had some boundaries for myself, but I was also single and quite honestly a little naive. My boss didn't hire me directly, I was assigned to him after I was hired, but it was the perfect job for me – I was in my sweet spot, we worked well together. There was nothing going on, but somehow some rumors or concerns started circulating, and I was the one blamed for things. I was mortified, humiliated that anyone would think I would do that. I was frustrated that it was my job being threatened and not his. I felt pretty helpless, and very hurt…. Lots of time has passed, several jobs, and as I observed things from more of a distance I was able to evaluate things better. I had been naive for sure – there are a lot of things I did right, but a lot of things I'd do differently too, but I also saw how my boss had a pattern of relationships with females that in my opinion were too personal. And it frustrated me that I had been the one blamed for things, I had been the one threatened with losing my job.
I would just say, it's not fair to make the call based on looks. Make the call based on character, and don't make it the woman's fault… I'm sure sometimes it is, but certainly not always. Don't put pastors on such a pedestal that you are too afraid to threaten them with their job, if they are the one in the wrong. It's a lot easier to make it the assistant's issue, then to deal with the idea of losing or disciplining someone who is in such a high/visible position, but that is a cop out, and not at all how we are biblically supposed to respond.
Great thoughts – I've walked that path – we all start niave and hopeful – at least a lot of us do. I did anyway, and it does not matter whether the office is ministry based or secular based – the bada bing factor can hit all of us when we least expect it. The trick too is I learned I'm more likely to call a boundry in secular than I am in ministry – I had to stop being so niave in that regard. Men are men – collar or no collar. And so are women. Churches could learn a lot from the corporate world, and vice versa, I'm sure. Anyway I liked your post – wanted to tell you that you aren't alone.
This is interesting to me. "Don't put pastors on such a pedestal that you are too afraid to threaten them with their job." In my experience, pastors put themselves on such a pedestal that they don't have any accountability, or friends for that matter, who they subject themselves to, so there is no one to threaten them. Pastors-men with that much power-their ego's are huge. That–in my opinion–is how a lot of affairs start as well. I worked for a guy who re-wrote the bylaws and actually got them passed so that there were checks and balances, but they were all his pawns. It's been tragic for the church. Anyway, not arguing, just think it's an interesting perspective
My first comment seems to have gotten deleted I guess because of my pointing out the crazy pun in the post but I agree with Anne
Making rules to keep from breaking the rules doesn't help. If you are going to cheat, you are going to cheat. Keep your marriage hot, your passion for Christ and the church hotter, and your ego in check. When you think you are bigger than the sin or have to feed your persona – you are in trouble no matter what.
A guy wont help either. Ask Ted Haggard about that.
And for those who might jump on the accountability bandwagon – you are only as accountable as you want to be. If you can hide it from your wife and your god – an accountability partner wont help. Quit making rules to keep you from breaking the rules.
OK – my post wasnt deleted – it wasnt where I thought it was – and my website is wrong and I only comment so I can drive traffic to it! http://www.moviepastor.com
I read this post at 2am this morning. I wasn't sure what to post or even if I should reply to this.
At first, I was offended. Because I am an assistant. Have been since I've been out of high school in 198..blahblahblahblahbbbbbb
And I used to be the "hot young assistant" and now I'm not. I'm the "mature safe assistant". What a blow to my dumb ego. I mean I know I'm not what I used to be but I think it was the idea that people base their decisions soley on the outside rather than seeing the experience and what the potential employee is about that irritated me a bit. Yeah I know, ignorance is bliss. It truly is. 
On a serious note, Los. I re-read your post. And re-read it again. This is a personal question that you've made public in order to get opinions. I get that. You want to make the right decision. I get that too. But in the end there were only two people you needed to talk to. Period. God and your wife. Those two opinions are the only ones that matter. Because you are not in a business setting anymore, you have the luxury of allowing your wife to "interview" the assistant too. And then pray, both of you. Allow God to guide you to who it is that needs to be with you on this journey, in this ministry. Hottie or Nottie…He'll put in your path the one that He wants.
I do want to commend you on knowing your limitations and your faults and taking it into consideration. There are not many men/women out there who would even think about it and just make the decision.
Definitely something that is not talked about enough.
Which is why I aired it.
you gotta play it safe dude! why would you even want to come close to tempting yourself with that?!?!?! thats crazy talk. ive had conversation after conversation with different pastors from florida up here to st. louis and 90% of them have told me the same thing. I knew a pastor once who had a hot assistant and got caught up in it all and ended feeling guilty about looking at her or having affair. you gotta play it safe, whatever that means. whether it be hiring a more mature woman assistant or a dude. if you hire and hot assistant at least make sure there are more than just u 2 in the office at one time!
Even godly men fall.
It's best to try to protect yourself (and your family) as much as possible. You know what your weaknesses are, don't try to deny it, it doesn't make you a bad person, it just makes you human.
(and I don't mean you as in Carlos…I mean you as in any man out there…or woman for that matter)
Here is my real-life experience. My pastor husband and I have a great relationship. Yes, some things are not perfect but we would have told you we were married to our best friend and very satisfied. He takes a new church and has to travel to go there every day. So, no more lunch at home and many hours away from the family. With the new church comes a secretary. (the only other staff member) Mediocre in looks and much older than him. However, she loves sports and they have a lot in common. He never thinks she will be a temptation but it is really enjoyable to sit and chat with her. A couple months into the job she starts making passes at him. He pushes her away and thinks "he can handle this". Within a few weeks they are in a full blown affair. My husband was not looking for this, he describes it as thinking he was in a playground when he was really in a battlefield. Pastors you are in a battlefield! Satan wants to take you down and the church (body of Christ) with you. At the very least put some real boundaries in your marriages that you both agree with! Keep the communication open and don't think ANYONE is out of the question.
ps … there are quite a few "ministry leaders" who battle same sex attraction.
bring on the cute same sex assistants…
it may have the appearance of looking "better" or more "holy" or whatever
but a hotel room is still a hotel room and lust is still lust.
just sayin'
good point anne, I think this needs to be taken in as well. Especially some of the most recent pastors in the news and their moral failures with same sex affairs.
I'm just embarrassed by how much time has been spent discussing "hot or not." Really?
I mean, it just seems hypocritical to me. We want to teach our daughters that their outward looks don't matter… but then we have discussions about which of our potential assistants are hot or not? In a public forum? And think it's somehow okay to classify people based on their looks? That it's okay to suggest that potential ministry assistants should be classified into either a "hot" category or a "not hot" category?
I've read several comments from women who classify themselves as ministry assistants in the "hot" category. So, if that's the case, we can assume there are women reading who would put themselves in the "not hot" category. It's interesting that we haven't heard from any from them, isn't it? I wonder if it might be because some of the ideas in this post and comments feel like a direct slap across their face? I wonder what they're thinking as they look at the pictures in the post and maybe realize that they look more like the second picture than the first? I wonder what they're thinking as they read through some comments suggesting that a "not hot" assistant is the way to go?
How dare any of us think we have the ability to classify ANYONE as hot and not hot. The presumption and pride in the very thought of doing it makes me sick to my stomach and embarrass me simply for the people who have thought themselves worthy to be a judge of hot or not.
a freaking men
read my post. I admitted I'm the "not hot" one (although I'm currently not a ministry assistant). Does it bother me? yes to some extent it does. It's my human fleshy worldly side. But I realize the only one that I should worry about whether he thinks I'm hot enough is my husband.
It's unfortunate that we do live in a world where people judge based on appearances especially since we all have different opinions on who is hot or not. You can have two people looking at the same person and one says hot and the other says not. So it becomes sad to go cliche and say you have to look at the character of the person to decide truly whether the person is really hot or not.
And for the record…I like Ugly Betty. I would be glad to be compared to her. Even though she dresses quirky and has glasses and braces, her "character" is beautiful. However, I've "heard" that Megan Fox is not a nice person. so, go figure?!
Um. You don't think people are hot?
I dare put them in categories because I DO PUT PEOPLE IN CATEGORIES.
My wife knows who I think is hot and not.
It's human.
Not a right.
But to the point of your comment I get it.
But I'm also not an idealist.
You think people are hot, and you think people are not.
Right?
Or maybe not.
I could be wrong.
Obviously, biologically, we all are easily able to identify what is physically attractive to each of us and what isn't. But no, I don't think there are categories of "hot" or "not." What's considered to be a "hot" woman in America is not the same as what's considered to be a "hot" woman in other areas of the world, much less the difference of our opinions just here in the United States. I used to hear that a lot and dismiss it, but then I spent three weeks in a Middle Eastern country and found very quickly that the thinner girls in our group were not as sought after as the ones with heavier weights (and no, I wouldn't have believed it either if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes).
I'm not an idealist, either. I'm actually someone who worked in the nation's largest Christian residential treatment facility for girls 18 and under, helping with girls who suffer from various issues that were putting their lives in danger as well as then working with another ministry that ministers to girls in grades three through twelve in public schools. I also have a M.A. in Youth and Family Ministries, so trust me, the idealism ended long ago. I normally wouldn't have challenged something like this, but what I have seen with my own eyes after seven years in vocational ministry to girls forces me to speak up.
What I am is a girl who knows just how the enemy can use words to manipulate things to cause chaos and destruction. You have a very large readership and I am certain there are girls reading who feel quite "unhot" after seeing an image of what you refer to as unhot and what is hot. Do I think that a lot of male (and female readers) would agree with your assumptions? Sure. Do I think there is any reason that we need to classify people by their physical appearances? No, I absolutely don't.
You have two daughters who have very different appearances; would you EVER be okay with someone classifying one of them as hot and one as unhot when they're of age? I can't answer for you, but if I know anything about you from reading your blog for about 1.5 years now, I think it's safe to say that you would be furious. Both of your daughters are beautiful to you and I would hope that no one would ever make them think otherwise, even if one of them was to grow up to fall under the "not hot" list.
Heaven forbid one of them wear thick glasses, have frizzy hair and find braces on her teeth and come back to read some of the comments on this post 15 years from now.
And heaven forbid that Jesus would join us in classifying anyone as hot or unhot.
I'm in a very thankful and unique situation at my church. My assistant is my wife. Sure it leads to some tough conversations every once in a while but I'll take those any day over the other. By the way, she's amazing at her job….and being my wife.
I am considering trying to find a male assistant when she can no longer work for me. (Baby #3 is on the way)
I also wanted to say that when it has happened, the ending SUCKS! No matter the results to your marriage and church sin really does take you farther than you wanted to go. If you could talk to the recently fallen pastor, I guarantee he would say he wished he could go back. There is no place happier than serving God, no place worse than NOT!
Most of what can be said about this has been, but a few nuances:
- Numero Dos is an attractive enough when she's not dressed up as Ugly Betty. I don't think wise women need to go that far, but I've personally (as a woman) been distracted by female colleagues who flaunt their hotness in the office. Better to be wise, and kind to others, by keeping your sexiness under wraps! As many have said "hotness" goes way beyond appearance. Yet a wise and kind woman will save any sexy clothes – and behavior – for some other setting.
- As a woman in ministry (missions, not pastoral) I sometimes feel discriminated against, as a woman, on the basis of just this issue. Avoiding temptation is more important than developing women leaders or getting a more diverse perspective on things, so let's not invite any girls. Well, I can accept that if it saves marriage. But it sure seems unfair.
- I wonder if other single women (or men) feel discriminated against in social or professional Christian settings because they don't have a spouse and are therefore considered a threat? I'm not hot. But I am single. Are single women really more likely to get involved in affairs than married women are? I wonder if there have been any studies on this? But I've been a Christian for decades and never married; I'm a virgin. I'm not going to make a pass at somebody's husband – wouldn't know how. But couples I know seem much more comfortable doing things with other couples, and I think this may be why.
How about the "Great Hot Worship Leader" Debate next? Should a church hire a HOT worship leader (male or female)?
I went to a conference once and lets just say the gal leading worship was pretty nice lookin. OK she was smokin hot. I sort of felt like I had to look at the floor during worship.
I'd say men need to grow a pair and quit leaning on the "but I'm a guy, I can't help it" crutch.
Sure we're wired more visually than women, but seriously? When are men gonna stand up and be men and FIGHT for purity?
C'mon.
You're so right!
Ephesians 5:3
“But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people.”
The church I used to go to seemed to really push the "look good" aspect, and almost all of the assistants, especially those hired in the last year, would fall into the "hot" category. They're focusing on image. Oh, they may be godly women. I feel comfortable saying that at least most of them are at least spiritual/religious. But it is dangerous ground.
I agree with Jarett Stevens comment . . .the guy has to be right first, other wise no assistant will b right. We have story after story of guys who got rid of internet, cable and any other form of temptation and still found a way to stumble.
Changing the scenery doesn't change the camera.
It's not the assistants responsibility to keep your eyes off of her, it's yours. If you can't do that, you shouldn't b in a position that requires an assistant. Sounds harsh, but if that applies to you, man up and get it right.
But, yes I agree "that which you put in front of you continually will always be a greater temptation than that which you occasion upon."
Don't touch The Gold, The Glory or The Girls…..(guys in some cases)
I believe you are absolutelly wise. Setting boundaries are the best way to be safe.personal obedience needs personal choises. As co-workers, we spent more time together that in our homes with our spouses.familiarity some how,somewhre will happen and is very easy to get personal.emotional affairs happen before we even become aware of it,that why when we are accountable to God and our spouse that we need to secure or happy place.Estoy de acuerdo contigo, because you developed spiritual maturity and personal responsability is why u are making this decision..As per the comment that other person posted,It is because YOU and YOU WIFE CAN handle it, that YOU are making the decision of not dealing with it. I do the same.I set boundries that will keep me safe.
I hope this does not sound like I am throwing anyone under the bus. I am included in this as well seeing as how I am a male and am a weak weak man when it comes to women.
But, honestly I think that guys are naturally inclined to hire the better looking assistant. Los, You made reference to this in you post a little bit, but I really do think that we as guys want to have the hot assistant. It is that little temptation that we get when we hear about a girl being hot, our immediate reaction is we want to see for ourselves.
this is a pretty obvious statement, but we are going to pick the hotter assistant almost every time.
I do find it interesting that when we say assistant we automatically think of a girl doing that job.
Not to be sexiest in that statement, but maybe we need to redefine some roles and be a little more strategic about it all.
My advice, hire an old women named dorthy, they are the best assistants anyways. She can bake you cookies and knit you a sweater at the same time.
Well here's an idea, maybe we could still let hot women have assistant jobs if they covered up with something…
Like maybe a cloth around their hair and neck…
But then they could still tempt men with their hot lady bodies…hmmm…maybe we could get like a blanket or something to throw over them. Yeah! That would work. And then cut out some holes for their eyes. Perfect!
But then…I don't know…you could still hear their hot voices and smell them and stuff.
Maybe we should just not allow them to work at all.
And since they don't need to work, they don't need to drive. So let's not let them do that either.
And really, since they're not going to work, or drive, or leave the house…why send them to school? They don't need to learn to "read" or "add".
They'll just be kept safe at home where they can't use their sinful bodies to tempt Godly men.
Or maybe we should just exclude ALL hot people from ministry? Lead us not into temptation right?
Bye-bye Craig Groeschel. Bye-bye Steven Furtick. Bye-bye …Carlos Whittaker?
Or are these just special rules that apply only to women?
This is what I'm hearing: For women, what you look like, is the only thing that matters.
I expect to get that from the world.
It breaks my heart that I get it from the church.
I don't think that is what people are trying to get at here.
I think the main thing is that we are all sinful people and are tempted in many different ways.
I do agree with you that this conversation is a little one sided, and that is why I brought up the point that when we say the word assistant why is it that we think of a women?
But, I definitely do not think that all that matters is what women look like, they could be ugly betty, there are still things that tempt men and women and this is an important conversation to have in regards to holding friends and each other accountable.
It is so important to establish protective boundaries so that you can avoid traps that Satan will set. The comments that others have made about avoiding being alone in the church or offices with members of the opposite sex is good advice. But, if you don't guard your heart and make sure you aren't letting lust take root, you will pursue a wrong relationship no matter how many boundaries are set.
You shouldn't hire a female who does not understand proper Christlike relationships and how to maintain a professional relationship with her co-workers. If that gets off balance at anytime, she should not remain an employee. Don't play with fire!
Beauty or lack of beauty should not be the criteria for working in a church environment. Skill, anointing/calling, servantheartedness…these should be at the top of the list.
These are just a few of my thoughts on this subject…..
That goes both ways though – sometimes it is the worship leader who doesn't know how to maintain Christlike relationships. We can't place all the blame on the women.
no one is safe from this. it can happen to anyone. hot or not hot doesn't matter. anyone can fall into this. the best solution is never be alone with the person of the opposite sex. women can fall for me the exact same way.
the weakest part of any fortress it the gate, which is where satan (the enemy) waits.
When the Gazites were told, “Samson has come here!” they surrounded the place and lay in wait for him all night at the gate of the city. They were quiet all night, saying, “In the morning, when it is daylight, we will kill him.”
— Judges 16:2
i meant to say "men" not "me"
I am 42 years old, I have been married for 15 wonderful years to a dream of a husband. We communicate, we have sex regularly , we say we love you when we hang up, we are soul mates that love each other more today then we did 15 years ago. and I would NOT be ok with him having a hot assistant nor him me. I have friends who thought they're marriage could withstand hot assistants, they thought going to lunch with another man was ok, they thought they would never be divorce, but they are. MANY, too many really 15 20 year marriages falling apart because people think they are above the temptation. SO, I said all that to say, ask older married people what they think and listen to them. Don't blow them off as being out of touch, cuz' they actually are more in touch with the reality of how things affect a marriage, men, women, and all that. I say, let a guy be your assistant and avoid any problem..that is of course if your not dealing with a gay issue
Wow, such a relevant issue and needed discussion on this topic. Recently, a new volunteer came to our church to help my husband with production. I immediately was taken back by her immodesty in choice of clothing and not to mention that she is working close with my husband and several other men dressed inappropriately.
My husband has since made it where he does not work close by her. I truly appreciate it. Even though he is a happily married man, I understand the weaknesses of men when it comes to a woman who is obviously trying to draw attention with her clothing.
If a "hot" assistant is inviting long stares and gestures with how she acts and what she wears, then I believe that she is half to blame for an affair.
Beauty not booty.
Got a perfect movie to illustrate this conversation. Check out the movie "Obsessed"
Pretty much goes through exactly what we are talking about here. Crappy movie, interesting topic.
Worked for a pastor who had affairs w/ over 3 women on staff at a large church- had I been open to it, surely could've been me too. Doesn't really matter where you fall on the proverbial scale of 1-10-I am CERTAIN that each one of us puts off a vibe- If yours says: "I'm looking for validation, I'm looking for strokes, I'm looking for…something." If that vibe is being put off- there is NO DOUBT opportunities will come. I went to a bible college affectionately give the surname "bridal college" yet in my two years there NOT ONE person even asked me on a date. Barely out of highschool, homecoming queen. But I was not there for that- I was not married, but definitely NOT open for any type of business. Do you think the chick that poured her perfume on Jesus feet was hideous? Who knows? More importantly the Bible talks about guarding our hearts. When we tend to our own "garden" and find our security in him, we can avoid sending out the "signal". When we become full of ourselves, esteeming too highly or too lowly we paint a target on our heads. But instead of self-esteem, how about Christ-esteem? Its all him anyway.
But let me just say, if you are sending out the vibe, it doesn't matter who your secretary is- could be her, or the chick at the grocery store, or the one at Sbux….or… you get it. If you're not open for business, take the sign off the window and go find your wife. Become the best freaking husband in the world and fall in love all over again.
The very fact that we even have to discuss this rubs me the wrong way. It exhausts me that women and their looks are so incredibly obsessed over in the church. From Pastors throwing comments about their "hot wives" to actually spending an entire forty-five minute sermon centering in on how difficult it is for them when "the beautiful girl" in Starbucks walks in. We can't get a break from the beauty obsessed culture and we can't get a break from the church. The church is drenched in it. I wish that we as the church would demand that beauty would lose some of its power but I think that we just reiterate it and reinforce it straight from the pulpit.
This is why I like you.
And this is why you can't stand my blog.
Oh, come on- you know I love your blog! It is a must for me. It is probably true that we represent two entirely different spectrums on most every issue (including how to properly adorn fajitas) but at the end of the day we're all just trying to figure this whole thing out, right? Now, about Team Whittaker eating ColdStone. Well, that is a wholly different issue and Mr. Fitzpatrick isn't nearly so kind.
Didn't read all 150 comments(sorry) so this may have been said. If the thought "she's hotter than my wife" goes thru your head. Don't hire then go get counseling for your marriage. Or, have a female staffer join in on the interview. Or have your wife join in on the interview. Because there is a woman vibe out there whether we want to admit it or not ladies. And girls, don't hate her because she's beautiful. God made Esther a hottie and she used it for a very specific purpose. Recognize the difference between "hot" and "suggestive". Sometimes that prevaling beauty is the overflow of a true woman of God. Then there are the safeguards of not being alone together or behind closed office doors etc.
This upsets me. I'm an assistant. I'm young & "hot". I know I am called to this role.
Would men in church not lust over a "hot" worship leader? Don't teenage girls lust over the worship leaders all the time?
You really need to be working these things out with Jesus & not be legalistic.. that's not going to help you like walking with God will.
Great post Los. I read this early this morning and thought "maybe I'll post" but decided not to, but after reading your twitter, decided to come back and peruse the three pages of comments which some made me laugh OUT LOUD and others made me think "wow, if you only knew."
I've been there, down that road, and "hot" or not it just happens if you're not careful. I was the assistant, several years younger, and it just happened. We weren't careful, we weren't strong, yet we were SURROUNDED by those who love Jesus and NO ONE called either one of us out on our behavior. If anyone would have observed our interaction long enough they would have caught on quickly to the flirtation and inside jokes. But no one.
As I read the posts that give scripture verses and three bullet points on how to avoid sexual sin, let me just tell you when you're in it it's the last thing you think of – and coming out on the other end you would do ANYTHING to take it back. You just need to surround yourself with strong believers who aren't afraid to call you out and I love Anne's post. Things like respect and communication are key.
That decision I made only a short while ago will probably forever haunt my memory and while I've traveled down the road of restoration and my relationship and intimacy with the Lord is stronger now more than ever – there's just nothing like what this sort of sin does to the soul.
But thanks again for bringing up the topic! It's always interesting to see how people respond to something like this!
I just stood right up outta my office chair, pumped my fists and yelled 'glory' like I was in an Aretha Franklin revival show.
Melissa Fitzpatrick somebody gotta get you a soapbox or a pulpit or both because you are on the money!
PS, my comments weren't directed towards you LOS, they were generic. I re-read and thought it sounded a little like i was telling you what to do, which I wasn't.
Peace.
The comments are interesting. I have to say secretaries have come a long way, at least I'd hope to think so. Lol! The article is hilarious! I am an assistant to a senior pastor with responsibilities beyond the normal 'secretary'. If I was one of those my keyboard would have red marks all over it.
I sense a lot of fear about this subject. Unfortunately if leaders choose to deliberately ban beautiful and attractive women to serve along side them they are setting themselves up for a fall. They should also be sure they put a sign outside their doors saying no good lookers are welcome. For that matter don't go out in public either! Really!?
Seriously this is not something that should ever be swept under a rug, this subject will always be an issue worth discussing. Maturity is key. It needs to be discussed openly with understanding that God created us to procreate and gave us the desire. It's what you do with the desire that matters. It's not going to go away! It would be like saying let's put all things beautiful (that God created) and lock them up because looking at them will cause us to sin. Hmmm, sounds too much like the blame game.
Knowing that I am fully responsible for my actions keeps me out of trouble and is a catalyst for success. It also allows others around me to be free from any guilt from feeling like it was their fault if I sin. Sin is a choice I choose to participate in or not. Now attraction can be a strong element and simply saying or thinking I'm going to choose not to give in will also contribute to a fall in this area.
Setting boundaries is essential, especially if there is to be a healthy environment to serve together in ministry. Our staff knows we have a no exception rule that a male and female can not be alone. For ex. if a male staff member or any male is in the office when I pull into the parking lot I have to wait to go in until someone else arrives. This is a very clear boundary.
Leaders have the responsibility to address and lead in this area, it needs to be faced with practicality and resolution. There are too many hurting and dying people in our spheres of influence to allow this subject to prevent us from reaching them. We limit ourselves to who we can reach if we allow this subject to rule us and go unresolved.
"She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts." -Han Solo, Star Wars
Story of my life….
Oh and by the way, I am an admin. assistant (at a church) I just like doing my job and making people in my office laugh!!! =)
I just said to my husband: "Babe. You will NOT have a hot assistant."
**awkward pause**
me – "And NO, I will not be your assistant."
husband – "oh come on."
If you are contemplating what's hot and not in an assistant and your married, pick two!! I don't care what religion you are, we're all human and if you have to give it moment thought PICK TWO!!
My wife, @lesliebrooke, is my assistant. If I get tempted by my assistant, we might just be taking the rest of the day off. No problems here.
There are some really awesome posts here. Great topic. One I wish I'd known about 8 years ago. Christ is key – so is maturity, honesty and strong boundaries.
I will add this is a two way street – women are just as easily tempted. I view myself as pic #2, my hubby disagrees. Love that man. I have stronger boundaries and rules today for male/female friendships and work relationships. Hot or not. They have to be happily married, mates have to be included in the relationship, we are never alone, and my deal breakers are trip all over yourself to talk to me when no one is looking and ignore me in front of your wife – it is hasta la vista baby.
I can't lay this as a blame game in that only men are tempted – women are too, it's foolishness to believe otherwise.
Way to be brave Carlos – thanks for the post.
hmmm… as a woman and a assistant to the Sr. Pastor of our church I wonder what category I fall into. Was I ugo #2 and that's why I got hired? Not for my skills, talents, abilities and calling. But I was ugly enough to make the cut?!? Thank goodness I still have the 25 extra pounds of baby weight! I might not have gotten the job.
as a wife I would suggest my husband to have a male assistant in the future. I don't think I would like him to have a "hot" type of assistant.
Am I crazy jealousy or it is just a precaution?
Thank God my husband doesn't have an assistant yet.
Unless you pastor a church with 1000 people in it you don't need a "personal assistant." Handle your own calendar for pete's sake. Quit acting like the celebrity you aren't. That would take care of 1/2 of this issue in a heartbeat.
(NOT directed at Los – just directed at this ridiculous notion that pastors need personal assistants and drivers and security and…)
hi los,
just dropping by to say i have something going on in my site about tweeting the gospel in less than 140 characters. Hope you can check it out here: http://your-dailyword.blogspot.com/2009/08/spread...
I would prefer an assistant who is my mom's age or older…
Wow so many people have posted!! Another thought; do you realize that all these older assistants, who seem to be the answer to the problem, might once have been young hot assistants. If churches stop hiring young women as assistants for fear of marital unfaithfulness than 30 or 40 years down the road there will be no older assistants to hire anymore.
I think I know many non-Christians who would read through this discussion with horror and disbelief then add it to the list as to why they don’t believe in Jesus. Even as one who had been a Christian for 8 years I have a hard time reading this and finding the love that Jesus talks about having for everyone. Yes, men certainly need to be aware of temptation and weakness then guard against them as needed. and Yes, sometimes that means cutting out their own eyes. Finally, yes, it is a beautiful way to show love and commitment to their wives.
However, as a woman who has been objectified for her looks, I can honestly say that at first this post outraged me. It is putting women in a glass box and using Christian lingo to separate the pretty ones from the ugly ones and then assigning them roles as deemed appropriate. Women have souls, gifts, minds, capabilities, and responsibilities to act to the glory of God – attractive to you or not. We are capable of withholding flirtatious behavior just as men are capable of turning their eye. Do you doubt the power of the Holy Spirit? Do you wish to rearrange and remodel the Church as Christ has painted her – so you can live an easier life with regard to temptation?
Do not talk as though we are just bodies that float around, meant to tempt you. We get that enough when we step outside your church walls.
dang… get it alicia
The comments about "The Rules" in the bylaws of some of these churches are disheartening. The one about sitting in the parking lot until another person comes to work, so you're not alone with someone in the office?? Not having lunch, conversations, riding in a car – with a person of the opposite sex? Huh?
My wife regularly has lunches with male, female coworkers – one on one. It doesn't bother me in the least. I am a stay at home Dad that meets up with other Mom's for play dates for our kids. We just don't have time in our lives for outside affairs. We just don't have time to NOT trust each other.
We set aside time to talk every evening before bed and every morning over breakfast. Attraction to other people have come up in our conversations before. Will temptations present themselves – definitely. Will temptations be acted upon – I hope not. You have to put your trust in your spouse and in God.
"We just don't have time in our lives for outside affairs."? Because people who cheat on their spouces schedule it in their calendar?????
"We just don't have time to NOT trust each other."? Because people who are cheated on NEVER thought their spouce was untrustworthy?
I'm sorry, but out the hundreds of other comments, this one has re-played in my mind for the last couple of days.
I don't know you, but you need a better argument than this.
I have a brother inlaw that refuses to allow his wife (my sister) to coach high school boys cross country team. He feels there will be to much overwhelming temptation for her. He doesn't like the way the boys look at her. He has asked me before why I would allow my wife to attend business trips with only males. I looked at him increduously and said "Allow!?!?! Allow?!?! Are you serious? If I can't trust my wife… then who could I trust?
Totally with you Los
There are certainly sins that could be avoided by not having a "hot" assistant, but if it is anything more than distraction then I think there is far more at work than just her looks. On one hand, I believe we'd all agree it's much easier to prevent the situation than it is to escape it. But it may be good to remember also that when you are working closely with someone, things other than "hot" can be sources of attraction that can yield the same problems.
Protect your holiness, even if it is only a distraction of the mind! It still inhibits fellowship with the Father, and that is a far greater danger for the minister. It's that fellowship that must fail first before there's any other danger.
you're so adorable sometimes….the things you come up with for your blog. i'm thinkin' if my man was to have an assistant, and i had a choice in #1 or #2, i'd pic #1, become friends with her and ensure she knows that if she ever even THOUGHT about crossing that line…she'd have the wrath of me pissed off coming down on her…not something she'd want, and she'd know it! =0)
Well said.