Welcome To Church…Please Shut That Kid Up
Over two years ago I wrote this post…
Welcome to Sandals Church…Please Shut That Kid Up
It was one of the most commented posts in the history of my young blog at that point in time.
Because it’s touchy.
Both sides of the fence have been debated for years.
So far the answer has been a “cry room”.
Reading that post and remembering Matt stopping the service to ask if the kid was ok brought the emotions back.
So where are you guys?
What do you think?
I think we all agree that kids should be in an environment that better pours into their spiritual growth.
I watch my girls spiritually explode in UpStreet.
I know it works.
But some think differently.
And the more I study Jesus and His life, the more confused I am.
Talk…
Los
RAIN IT DOWN
As a pastor my view is that as long as the child is not being disruptive, then let them stay. One of the things that traveling to an under developed nation and doing church there will do to you is to re-shape your thinking on this matter. It is too easy to get caught up in running the prefect service that we forget we are there ministering to real people. If you want to be friendly to families, then let whoever is up front say something that makes it alright for the child to stay in the service. Use all opportunities to build up and open up the community.
From my comment to Russ Huttto's post (link at bottom) … same opinion!
"I think families should worship together as much as possible – at and away from our brick & mortar “churches.” Churches should offer environments that promote this – giving opportunities for this as it fits their size and culture. I can’t recall any defined or implied children or teen programs in the bible; but, to the disciples rebuke, Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. “ (Mark 10:13-16). To me that is somewhat of a model…
At our church, we keep everyone in the service through the music worship portion and have a children’s message before dismissing them to their own ”service” (0 to 5th grade) [given attention spans, message content, and distraction avoidance.] Our size allows for the children’s message – it is an East Valley distinctive that was started by our current pastor (when I went as a kid this was not offered). During this time, I always think of the Mark 10:13-16 passage when the kids run and sit around Pastor John on the steps of the platform. Their innocence, wonder, and honesty are convicting at times – OK, many times. When you think about it – aren’t we all supposed to approach God with that child-like innocence, wonder, and honesty? In this case, I think the kids model worship for the adults!
As the worship leader at our church, it is so cool to see families singing praises to God with their kids – they are modeling worship. Each week I see a mix of dads holding their kids and clapping and singing, moms praying with them during prayer (ok, I peeked one time), Jr. and Sr. High student standing with their friends and/or family, basically families being families before God and imparting a key part of following Christ: gathered and celebratory worship.
Bottom line: Family (Generational) Worship / Cross-Generational Worship ROCKS! It’s biblical and the way to go!"
ORIG: http://russhutto.com/2009/09/facilitating-family-...
This is where I start to walk the line. I like the idea of family worship time…however does that exclude those who are a 'family'? Or maybe does it distract someone who is single and doesn't know how to focus while there is a creaming baby?
It comes back to, who is the target audience of that service? I know and understand you'll never please everyone, but you have to know who your targeting and trying to attract in your service.
JRallis, It is a touchy one that requires discernment by leaders and understanding by the church body. A few comments:
- there are many parts in a church and I think the cool thing about ours is we don't seek to segregate singles, families, seniors in worship. Again, I go back to the passage I referenced in my orig post.
- it is all about church body culture & size. We're pretty diverse culturally, age-wise, and are a body at about 200 people (max).
- don't get me wrong, we do have a nursery and kid's church during the sermon time.
- I do agree that parents need to be sensitive to distracting people's worship – like during the prayer, sermon, Communion, baptisms, etc. (some parents are more discerning than others.) I've been bugged before…given the "looks"; but in the scheme of things, God was lifted high and Satan lost.
BTW, we don't have kids yet (Lord willing, we're adopting REAL soon). Not that not having kids should make a diff, but maybe some would let that impact their response. I'll be honest, there were times when seeing kids bothered/hurt me (being without); but through God's grace, I'm OK with it. But it is hard…I know.
Blessings!
I'm 25 and single with no kids. I LOVE kids and have been a child care provider and a nanny for four kids. But I've also got the biggest case of ADD ever, and find wild kids distracting. Now, if they get squirmy for a moment here or there and settle down again, I'm super cool with it. But I've also been in church with a SCREAMING kid and they wait, and wait, and wait, and waaaaaaaaaaaaait to take their kids out of the sanctuary. Usually the moment they do, the child stops screaming. Huh. Fancy that.
I get it. I get that parents want to experience the service too, but I think until they're really of age to pay a SMALL amount attention of, there needs to be an alternative in CASE some major meltdown.
There have been Sundays when I've missed the message entirely due to a noisy kid. As evil as I sound, sorry. I want to hear the message.
I would agree here.
I am 24 with no kids and the second a baby starts crying that's all I hear. Not having kids I don't understand, but my question is why wouldn't the parent want their kid taken care of while they relax and enjoy church them self. I guess if your at a church that doesn't provide a cry room, or have a nursery then I see why they would have to keep their child in with them..but most of all churches I've seen have somewhere else to take your kid.
I would agree here.
I am 24 and have no kids. When I'm in service and a baby starts to cry and fuss a little that becomes all I can hear. I'm not a parent so I don't fully understand, but my question is why wouldn't a parent want to have their child in a nursery while they relax in service. I understand if the church doesn't have a nursery or cry room, but otherwise, leave you kid there. The child ISN'T getting anything out of sitting in 'big church' (as we call it) with you. But that's just my thoughts.
I know at our church we have live video feed into our nursery for mothers and nursery workers to watch the service, and yes it's not the same, but it's something.
I don't think you sound evil…
hahahaha well that's good. You never know what people's reactions are going to be.
I think it depends on who your church is there for? If your church is set out to reach young and single mothers for Christ then it should be tolerated. If you are looking to reach retired then maybe a cry room is for you. It’s a simple question of priority.
Enter online church to the rescue.
No way the pastor can get mad about a child crying.
We currently offer a hybrid – our music time is families – the kids are in with is, and there isn't an alternative. Then we have a short story where all the kids go to the front, there is a storyteller & we sing another "kid friendly" song and then they go to another room for age-appropriate teaching. The youth stay in the main service with the adults.
Of course, our building is small – a small sanctuary that seats about 140 and 2 tiny rooms for the kids (think around 150 sq. feet, if that) so we don't really have much choice.
That being said, if you have a baby that has an ear infection or something that will make them sit there and scream, the nice thing is to go into the back room. Our sanctuary is 100 years old – ALL hard surfaces and very echo-y, so screaming can get unbearable.
Kids need to understand what "big church" is like – they need to learn how to sit and pay attention and there is a lot that a parent can do to help them learn. There is a great book called "Parenting In The Pew" that addresses this quite well. If you will help engage your kids they will learn more. Yes, there will be a season where you may not get as much out of it, but you are building a foundation for your kids, and that is worth just about everything.
First issue is that of appropriate environments. We don't expect elementary children to sit through college classrooms, so unless there is something in the worship experience that will relate to kids, forcing them to sit through it may do more harm than good.
Second issue is other people. Parents may learn how to ignore a fidgety or disruptive kid, but what about that first time guest, that person far from God, that person trying to find faith? I would hate for my child to be the reason someone could not focus on the Gospel message.
As to Jesus's comment about letting the little children come to him, that principle is true. But we must be careful in the application. Jesus wasn't teaching in a service that was being televised to an audience that has grown more ADD because of twitter and television. It could be argued that placing children in appropriate environments, where they will learn via activity and through songs with motions honors the command of Jesus far more than keeping them quiet in big church with goldfish and coloring sheets.
I think you've hit the nail on the head here.
We have 2 children under 3 and we don't take either of them to the movies for just this reason. It's not something she understands and she won't sit still that long and takes the focus off why people came there in the first place.
Granted church is much shorter than a movie (for most), but our message is much more important. And much more is required of us. If we are to worship with our mind and heart, we must be able to focus heart and mind on God – not kids, be they yours or mine.
My advice, teach your kids to worship at home. Teach them to love God with all they are in an environment that is comfortable and free from judgment. Then, when they can fully understand and respond to God on their own, they will be ready to join the greater body in corporate expression.
Personally, I think that it is important for children to be able to worship with their parents as a whole family. But I don’t think that this is an excuse for parents who are neglecting their child or allowing them to do whatever they want and make a ruckus.
We actually have a service designed especially for this. It happens 3 times a weekend, for 30 minutes, directly after our 3 most populated services. The “family theatre” environment is designed for kids school aged K-5th grade (although pre-K’ers love it too). It has sketches, songs, scripture, and a mini-sermon. It all ties in too the information that is done in the sunday school classes for the same aged kids so that the same theme/message is reiterated consistently. We *strongly* encourage all families to come to this service.
As for the “main” service, we have options. We have a professionally staffed/background checked nursery for under pre-K ages. We also have an “energetic baby” room which has audio feed and flat panel tv’s of what is going on in the main aud. Also, has the one way window if you don’t like screens. Babies cry, that’s what they do.
Our ushers (bouncers) hang out in the back of the auditorium during the service and do crowd control. If a child gets too disruptive (unable to be calmed down in a reasonable time, does it more than once or twice) a bouncer discretely goes to the parent/child and asks if they can help at all. They inform them of our nursery option and that we also have the energetic baby room if the parent really doesn’t want to part with the child. They also bring the “ad” for the energetic baby room, that they leave with the parent after the strong suggestion that they make use of our resources.
We promote our kids areas heavily in the bulletin and in the video announcements each week. It’s rare for a bouncer to be deployed more than 2-3 times an entire weekend, running 5 services at about 4k people total. Most people police themselves, but sometimes a little nudge helps out.
Somehow I didn't log in to post that at first…pfft.
I have a kids who are 8, 7 and almost 2. We attend a smaller church. The 8 year old opted out of the children's worship program early but she is very mature for her age. My 7 year old will choose to stay in that environment as long as they'll have her. She learns better there. There is a staffed nursery for ages 3 and under that just can't sit still. All the children participate in our singing worship. Just before it's time for the sermon and announcement in made that they are invited to attend their own service. We sing as they hold hands and march to their designated area. This works well for me. My husband is typically tasked to take care of some part of the worship service forcing him to be away from us. Most of the time, my kids' friends are lined up on the pew next to me. They are learning how to sit and participate for an appropriate length of time then I can enjoy the service without being forced to discipline them through the whole thing. Of course, there are ushers who can direct mothers to nursing rooms, the nursery, children's worship etc. I grew up being forced to sit stock still and listen. I thought that is how I would raise my kids. This compromise works out really well for us and our small congregation.
I raised 4 kids as a single mom… Sometimes my son came with me into a church service but…Disruption is NOT an option. My parents took me into church with them because I was a big introvert that hated being around new people I didn't know.. I wish I would have had more Sunday school time. I was way to young to understand what was being said in an adult service yet I remember things from sunday school class when I was only 4. Bring the kids into service when they are old enough to comprehend AND have the attention span to sit through it. I have since worked with kids that get seperation axiety and if know that if they are welcomed and loved on they will feel safe and have a much better church experience. Families should worship to gether daily…
yep, my baby stays with me…we are those attatchement parenting freaks that everyone loves to hate…right now our newborn goes to church in a sling…this is good for lots of reasons (no one touches her or asks to hold her, she sleeps the whole service…which at times is two hours and if she starts to fuss it is very quite and I get up and take her right out to the mothers room) i probably won’t put her in the nursery ever…we will do church with her…and again, if she is disruptive…we take her out. My baby does not get “ministered to” in the nursery nor do I need a break from her…this time is so short and I am glad to do what i need to do to keep her with me!
Church isn’t a show. Children need to learn how to worship from their parents in an environment that doesn’t cater to their every whim. It helps them learn that church won’t always be about satisfying their comfort level – that sometimes you have to be quiet and listen or sing songs that are hard to understand.
Of course the little ones need to be in a nursery where they can cry and run around and play. And you have to phase it in for the 4-5 year olds, in the “stay until after the worship time and children’s sermon” model mode. But I’m firmly opposed to taking elementary-aged kids out to “children’s church” because separating people out like that doesn’t build community.
so i read all the comments posted so far. as a father of two children both under the age of two, i can understand both sides of the pew. but just as Pastor Peter Carino (whom i dont know and have never met) we need to be aware that its not about the presentation but what message we are presenting. we should be in the business of building relationships and people not buildings and productions. i have always thought that Jesus said to let the little children come is because he knew that if the children were there the parents would be there with them. Jesus was after all, all about people and children are people too!!
bottom line, if you are a parent with disruptive kids get up and go to the back. you dont want to get in peoples way and cause them to stumble because of the thoughts they are thinking about you and your screaming offspring.
Romans 14:13 12 So then each one of us will give account of himself to God. 13Therefore let’s not judge one another any more, but judge this rather, that no man put a stumbling block in his brother’s way, or an occasion for falling.
My pastor growing up used to say “i would rather have a baby cry in church then anywhere else in the world.” even at 8 years old I thought he was wrong.
Also if it’s ok for babies to cry why not:
Let band members chat freely between songs amongst themselves (part of the service should be fellowship)
Let the pastor take a cell phone call during the sermon (it’s not a production so what’s the big deal?)
Let the insurance salesman/usher pass out a few business cards while he is passing the plate (as Christians we should support each other)
Have kids who have been taking guitar lessons for 3 weeks and in their eyes are now pros play in the band (don’t want to hurt their feeling and exclude them)
To cry or not to cry…that is the question.
Style of church…excellence…interuptions Should children be in adult worship.
I grew up in church and have to say it was WAY over my head…so much so that my friends and I would read Hardy Boy books every Sunday…loved those guys.
Forcing a child to sit still in something that is way over their head is not different than the borg assimilating the federation…well maybe not that extreme.
1st I respect a parents freedom of choice to “force” their kids to participate mostly in a conversation that is WAY over their heads but is that really “letting the little kids come to Jesus” Church was so way over my head…that when I could choose…I ran as fast as I could.
if the person bringing children in has been in that church and is a follower of Christ then they are just flat out selfish..
if that person is a first time guest and is a little at ease dropping off then maybe everything that can be done up them being a total disruption should be done…
BUT we are ultimately sacrificing peoples eternities perhaps if we allow them to be distraction
I work in kids ministry. It’s what I do. I think that yes, parents should try to respect those around them, however, I also think that the Church as a whole needs to start recognizing that kids are also a part of the faith community and our worship doesn’t always have to be picture perfect and distraction free. Our programs from the Nursery through high school are very intentional and I think that most weeks it’s the best place for kids to be. I also think that it would be a total shame for kids to go through their entire childhood not seeing their parents model corporate worship for them. How can we expect them to go through years of doing church with only their peers, and then seemlessly transition into a multigenerational corporate worship service. Personally, I think that kids should get a taste of both. And I totally know that a crying kid in the middle of service is a total distraction, I just think that extreme reactions either way show that the kid’s best interest is not what’s most important.
i love kids being around for worship and young disciples time… i think every adult can benefit from watching the kids run up to the front and gather around the pastor with such wonder and awe.
most parents know to step out with a noisy child, and we do have people to watch children that would rather not participate or who are becoming a handful in the service, but even for the little ones, their sunday school isnt until after church.
and i find if a child is crying and crying and the parent isnt doing anything… i pray for the both of them.
So, I think the point is for us to do things as Jesus would have them do them, and not how a "church" should do things. Just last week, as I was giving my introduction to my sermon, a young child began making quite a bit of noise – to the point that everyone noticed and was looking their way. I tried really hard NOT to. At the same time, I knew there was a really crucial point coming up in the sermon and I wanted everyone to "get" it, so I sort of slowed down a bit and tried to verbally drag my feet. In my head I was thinking "get that kid out of here already," but I was also sensitive to them because my child is the same age as theirs and it could easily have been me in their shoes.
Back to doing things the way Jesus did. I think one of the main reasons we dislike kids "making a scene" in church is because it disturbs and annoys US. I really don't think it disturbs God. But what about the pastor trying to preach? Why doesn't he/she simply take a short, subtle break and essentially pull back off the sermon for a few minutes and allow time for the parents to handle it without making a scene on them? Keep the thoughts going, but tell a story or something in the meantime. Once it's back to normal, continue on. Most people would dislike this because it means THEY might have to stay longer. Jesus probably wasn't in such a hurry to eat lunch that He wanted to push through distractions and get all annoyed. And the people (at least some of them) were there to hear Him, and I imagine they'd have been willing to wait a few minutes if they had to.
I don't know. I don't feel like I have great answers, but I feel like this is an US problem, much more than it is a HIM problem. And if that's the case, we need to refocus on Him in this situation in order to do the right thing – whatever that may end up looking like in your church situation.
Lot of crazy talk these days. And on the commented post from your Sandals days. People seem scared to death of kids and God forbid — noise. The horror.
You are adults, the supposed “seekers” are adults. Deal with it. Last I checked Jesus kept them around. And most of you these days are supposed Jesus only type people. So WWJD.
You want to go to the nursery fine. You don’t fine. You don’t want to be offensive to the hipster, twenty something, with the tshirt and scarf cause they are distracted by little people, but you don’t care at all about offending the stressed out mom? It isn’t loving to tell her “we have a great children’s service,” it is an assault on her parenting. You just told her that she chose wrong. But, I digress, my point isn’t it was unloving. Calling people out for things can be loving. My point is the kids should come in. The hipsters can handle it.
Of course we couldn’t take our infants in to the service because my wife was worried about them getting hearing damage cause the worship was SO LOUD. I don’t remember any one caring about that?
signed, grumpy young man
I am in a season of intensly examing everything I thought I believed a church should be. I'm kind of over fighting about the 2 hours (or so) out of each week I spend at a service — right now I want to focus on the other 166 and how my kids and others see Christ in me during those hours. That is where I am most effective as a Christian — not the "show" I put on at church. I have almost reached a point that I think we should all stop "going to" church and just start "being" the church. Jesus never argued over worship styles or nurseries…
Wow Los, so the debate is heated once again: I think you need a cookie.
From the responses, it looks like each church deals (or tries to deal) with screaming children based on demographic. Surely we can't be expected to have a blanket approach (no pun intended). Truth be told, I'm a fence straddler when it comes to these kinds of issues.
As an unmarried, childless, woman who was not brought up in church I will admit that a screaming child is very distracting. However, it does cause me to search my heart as to what my response should be. It is true, Jesus rebuked those who hindered the children from coming to him. Yet, I don't think Jesus is relegated to working in just the corporate worship setting.
Having been a member at a small church where the babies and kids outnumbered the adults, it was to be expected to have at least one if not two or three crying children in service…and there was a quiet respite about 20 feet away. Conversely, I now attend a church with about 2k per service and 3 services a weekend. The primary demographic is single 20-30 somethings so it is not as expected to have children in service though there are some occurences
Ultimately, I choose to NOT be the one to cast the first stone…I know I will be a parent one day, and I know there will be times when my child has a melt-down and God-forbid it's in church. Let's not forget that Sunday comes every seven days. Surely it isn't the ONLY day where we can worship Him, have fellowship, and get the spiritual sustenance we need.
My Son, 21 months is a fussy church go-er. The only thing I can say that I bring is (obviously) food and books for him to read and after about 20 minutes (if we’re lucky) we are in the back of the church. Most importantly we are at church!!! That’s in the summer time schedule.
When church gets back to normal schedules, they have a chidren’s mass. That’s where all children (the fussy and quiet) go and it’s alot more comfortable for the parents.
I don’t know what the anwser is but i’m certainly not going to take suggestions from anyone who doesn’t have a fussy child!! and I stand strongly when i say, a family should go to church together and not exclude a baby because a few people try to make you feel uncomfortable. Those people who roll the eyes or stare should pay alittle more attention to the preist talking rather then a baby 10 pews behind!!
I think one of the big assumptions in this conversation is that the parents are actually Christians. In the two churches that I have been blessed to serve in, the parents could not model worship for their children, because they didn’t know Jesus!
It was their children that brought them to church. It was their children who were coming back from kid’s ministry singing songs about Jesus, reading their Bible, quoting Scripture and sharing their faith. I cannot count the amount of parents we had who came to Christ because their children.
Children’s ministry is not babysitting. It’s true discipleship. Most of the children I have ministered to (800+ in one church; 50+ in another) were coming from broken homes where there was no hope, no example, many had no fathers. Who else but the Church should be supporting their spiritual growth.
And I cannot tell you what a blessing children’s ministry is for single mothers. One dear friend is a single mother to two disabled children and work and church are the only times she gets time to herself. It is such a relief to her that her children will be ministered to while she is being refreshed and ministered to.
I believe strongly that if a parent wants to keep their child in service and the child is not distracting others from hearing the Gospel, that’s fine. But children go to school every day and parents never complain that their children don’t come to work with them to learn a trade. It would be developmentally inappropriate. I have seen too many families changed, too many marriages healed, because children were drawn to church by the children’s ministry, begged their parents to come and God used those children in powerful ways.
Jesus said “Let the little children come to me…” not “Let the little children sit in church building and listen to a 45 minute sermon.” If we are leading children to Jesus, if we are making disciples of ALL people (including children), then we are doing exactly what Jesus called us to do.
I'm more interested in people accepting personal responsibility. If I were a parent I would do whatever I had to, in order to make sure that my kid wasn't a distraction. If I were the speaker and couldn't handle the distraction, I'd do whatever I had to in order to hone my craft. I'd get it to the place where I could give a perfect delivery even if my audience was nothing but a thousand screaming children.
Life is work. Quit slacking and own up to it people. (and that is some seriously good advice for myself at the moment).
When i go to church I value the peace, quiet and humbleness of being with the Lord. We do have a cry room so the noise of children has tampered down. As a parent, of a once 2 year old who could not sit, I would quietly lead him out of the sanctuary and spend most of mass outside with him and God. Thus, those who stayed got the pleasure of not hearing my kid but rather the mass. Today, my child is now 15 and is able to behave himself, sometimes much better than some of the adults. The thing that bothers me most now is not the children but the adults who decide to have a conversation during communion, the most sacred part of the mass. I do so want to turn around and tell them, not very politely, to shut up or go outside. It seems there is no more respect for the sanctity and peace offered during mass. Sadly, I no longer attend mass as regularly as I should. But at least I am no longer frustrated when praying or being in peace with Christ.
I think it was inappropriate for the pastor to embarrass that family in front of everyone. He may have done a lot of damage to that family in wanting to seek God. It would have been better to approach them in private to address the issue. In the other services, I would have been offended that he mentioned them again especially if I were in the same boat of having to bring my kids in. I also think it would have been better for the family to sit in the back and bring their child out if they were being disruptive. I think back to when my kids were that age, and especially if we were visiting a church, my kids would not go into the children's church b/c they were scared. I brought my kids in with me to the service and always sat in the back. If a family has to make a choice, wouldn't it be better to allow the family in to worship God than to stay at home b/c the kids won't go in children's church?
OK at a wedding? Nope.
OK at a beauty pageant? Nope.
OK in an "attachment" parent's workplace? Nope.
OK when it is MERELY the Word of God being proclaimed? Sure!
That makes no sense to me.
In the general church environment with a schedule, a worship set and a sermon, I think it's fine to have children there, but if the child is disruptive, our of love and respect for the others in attendance a parent should remove the child from the service. Generally, a child being disruptive week after week is not something that occurs. If a child is always disruptive, there's something deeper at issue than this question. I believe the example of worship and witness is good for children and a positive influence. I've heard this best utilized in house and cell church models where the children are integrated into the service itself in several ways. I don't think you can make a hard and fast rule, but parents need to be mindful. If your child is disruptive, step outside, use childcare, a cry room, whatever… but put others before yourself. Think of what you are giving to the others in the congregation rather than what you are missing out on.
My thoughts and prayers are with the woman and her child from your original post, Los. My personal opinion is that the church needs to meet people where they are at. Sometimes that is with a fussy baby in church. My kids have routinely used the nursery at our very, very family friendly church. I understand that they can be disruptive. After my dad died, I needed my kids with me. Even if they weren't perfect in church…even if they fussed a bit. I needed the connection to my church family and my immediate earthly family – at the same time. The point I'm trying to make is that I don't think we can or should ignore that sometimes people who come to church need us to extend a fraction of the Grace that we receive from God every day, every mistake we make. We might only get one chance to share it.
From a (former) worship leader's perspective, trying to create a worshipful atmosphere with no distractions…I don't have a probelm with kids in the congregation, but when a worship team member had kiddos climbing all over them, I had issues. From a mummy's perspective…and as a worship leader's perspective…I used to love catching my kid's eye and smiling…connecting as we worshipped together. From a person who's really struggling to understand how the body of Christ is really supposed to be as opposed to a series of traditions that we adhere to, and that I grew up with, and that aren't necessarily biblical….I have serious questions. I HAVE to know how Jesus' community is supposed to work! If He interupted time with his disciples to bring kids into the circle…what does that tell us about how our church family time together is supposed to be? There are so many paradoxes…..what is excellence? Is excellence making sure that we have great worship that is technically wonderful? Or is excellence making sure that our relationships with each other and God are built when we get together? Cant eh two co-exist? Sorry…I'm not much help…God has me on a wild adventure out of traditions at the moment
As a mom – if my kid is in service w/ me I'm constantly at attention. They have to sit still, they need to be quiet, they need to get their finger out of their nose, they need a snack, they can't see, they need to keep their hands to themselves, they need to stop kicking the chair in front of them.
I'd never get to listen or worship. Some of us moms NEED that time to focus on God. It wouldn't work for me. But I certainly don't mind OTHER people's kids in service.
Not to mention, sometimes the service topic isn't kid friendly. I would rather have them in children's church where they are learning in a way that makes sense to them. And fellowshipping with their peers.
first i read the original post… read some of the comments, then read some of the comments here… so here i go.
i think its wrong to publicly embarrass someone, so i think the pastor was very wrong. he played his frustration out on a person under his care, not only by ‘calling her out’ but then by drawing more attention to it in the other services in what seems to be an attempt to ’self-preserve’ or justify his actions.
the mother needed to be aware of her surroundings. she could have and probably should have moved to a less distracting area if the child was being loud, but the onus is still on the pastor. i can’t really imagine Jesus telling a woman sitting at the front of the crowd with a child with a rattle that she should take her kid to the back or something like that.
i imagine Jesus being redemptive in the moment. picking the child up and giving the child attention and continue teaching with the child, redirecting what was being said by what is actually happening. or even getting the child’s attention and beginning to speak the message directly to him or her in a way they would understand and the rest of the crowd would be inspired by.
some spoke of being aware of a “target” audience and making ‘rules’ based on that. i don’t know. i think anyone that is in the room is the target and that would include the kid and that would include the mother.
i think its incredible to develop opportunities for kids to worship and to find God and to encourage parents to take advantage of those things. but they are opportunities, not requirements. making it a rule stinks of the law.
a pastor being distracted and ‘preaching in anger’ or ‘in sin’ or whatever is just an indictment of their own heart. not necessarily of their salvation or their right to minister. challenges and unplanned bumps don’t make us who we are but show people who we really are. this pastor showed where his heart was and what he really wanted in that moment.
control.
he spent a lot of money and energy and time and etc etc on that children’s program and she didn’t take her kid in there so that he could be guaranteed an environment free of distractions so that he could preach the word of God that 98 percent of the people would forget and never talk about or think about again within 3 hours of leaving….
but his interaction with her will be remembered for years.
it may be the only thing many will ever remember specifically hearing him say. ever.
interesting.
its likely that our mistakes will be much more readily and easily remembered.
but again, i imagine Jesus redeeming, stepping into the moment, putting his arm around us when we say or do what wasn’t best, and redeeming…
because it is what He does and it is who He is.
I am sooo glad my church (NewSpring) does not allow children into the service unless they are in middle school or older. Oven the messages are just way over their level and they can learn better in an environment that is suited to meet them on their level. And as a plus we are not disrupted by children crying and by those who are bored since the message is not on their level.
If you actually look at what precedent is set within the bible, it becomes obvious that there was never any such thing as children church or even Sunday school. Everyone, young and old, nursing babes, as well as teens worshiped together.
Now i know that that is taboo in our “enlightened” age when we know more than the word of God does, and since parents have long abdicated their responsibility of actually raising their children to day cares, school teachers, or to whomever will give them their “me time”, it is quite impractical to just throw everyone together in a worship service without some expectations of orderliness. However, I believe that is precisely what churches should do.
Churches should not be in the business of entertaining…they should be in the business of glorifying God, and helping to reinforce parents God given, God directed responsibility if training up their children to be the next generation of Christians.
Age segregated sunday schools while originally well intentioned, were spawned straight out of evolutionary philosophy. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Parents, Pastors, and churches should be more concerned with the salvation of their children than with a few distractions and disruptions during a service.
In this disposable age, our children’s salvation should not be so carelessly discarded.