Our Society, The Church, And Depression/Anxiety
I was watching a show on ABC last night and out of 5 commercial breaks, there were 5, count that, 5, depression and anxiety medication commercials.
Two questions…
What does this tell you and what is the churches responsibility in all of this?
Los
RAIN IT DOWN
What it tells me is that, while there are legit mental health issues, the root issue centers on the issue of humility.
When we humble before Jesus, we realize who He is and who we are not. When we are full of pride, we contend for the glory that only Jesus can receive. Our effort to obtain that glory results in either arrogance or dispar – arrogance when we view ourselves more highly than we are, or dispair when we realize that we can never obtain the glory we desire. The latter creates an economic demand for a product that will soothe the reality of our depravity… a reality that can only be truly soothed by the Great Physician through a life of a humble and contrite heart – an honest relationship that relies on the Lordship of Jesus.
Our responsibility as a church is to keep pointing to Jesus and guide people into a place where the object of glory in their life is Him and Him alone. It is in that relationship that we receive our joy.
Let me again say that there are legit mental health issues that should be professionally treated, but I think we would be surprised at how many cases were real needs vs. worship needs.
wow. An awesome thought Marcus. Having thought about this a lot in my own life, there have definitely been times I’ve needed to sort things out but never quite looked at it as ‘real needs vs. worship needs’.
Of course, all recovery requires acts of worship (whether through faith, corporate worship [do people still use that term?], or otherwise).
I agree to a point.
Everything you say is correct, but sometimes there are medically imbalanced issues that need balancing.
Sometimes this can be done with medicine, exercise, diet and sometimes simply prayer
bingo Carlos…totally agree with you.
In my clinical and pastoral experience it doesn’t matter how “right” we are with God….depression, anxiety, biploar can affect anyone. It says nothing of their relationship with God. I’m not saying that spiritual issues aren’t a consideration in mental health, but mental illness is not an indicator of a poor spiritual/worship life.
Not always Rhett, but even the Bible says a double minded man is unstable in all his ways, and I’ll be the first to shout AMEN!
I have an interesting perspective on two fronts, first as someone who they diagnosed as depressed (and I was for a season, having fought cancer and the chemicals surging through my body because of that it did induce depression for a season), and as the daughter of a man who fought bipolar his whole life and possibly took his life because of it.
See my doctors were very quick to give me a pill, which made me so foggy headed, I couldn’t hear the voice of God anymore. I struggled harder ON meds than without them. I heard God for years but for a few years I didn’t and until I had a recurring dream that showed me why, I was on those drugs. I’m off of them now, and I’m not depressed, and I’m not my fathers daughter in the aspect of depression. I took my authority that God gave me and broke those curses and I walk now very rarely in any depressed state.
I can tell you when I was unsure on many fronts of my salvation, beliefs and was struggling, even wrestling with God, taking a pill would have been much easier, but now I come to value the emotions God gave me.
I also have learned not to let them rule me all the time, and the gift that they are, to feel so deeply at times.
Understanding that if Jeremiah was born today, they would have drugged him and put him in a mental institution. If John the Baptist was here, he too would be locked away somewhere.
We have to be careful, and if spiritually the people are where they should be and they still struggle, then perhaps there is a medical issue… but if the fruit of their spiritual life is rotten, get to the root of that first and watch God move.
Most of the people I know intimately that struggle with depression, also struggle in their walk with God, usually are living disobedient lives, or lukewarm ones. Granted, this is from the scope of what I see in my relationships.
Perhaps deeply their soul is sobbing because they know Christ will spit them out, and apathy has taken over. Perhaps they just need someone to get on their face and intercede for them. Regardless, we are called to pray for them, break curses, and present Christ. Let Him heal them and bring them to complete and total spiritual and physical healing.
I KNOW He can do it. So lets pray and stop making sweeping judgement calls. I look at individuals and even then only judge their fruit, and then in humility knowing all too well my own failures. Then, holding them up in prayer.
Our job? Prayer, direction, more prayer, and most of all… LOVE THEM.
I have been suffering from extreme depression/bipolar issues since early childhood. I also was sexually abused as a child and more. Been a Christian for 22 years. I am now 60. I love the Lord with all my heart or as much as i can from day to day. He is my source of hope and strength, yet i suffer horribly from my mental health issues. That’s because my brain is damaged both genetically and from the abuse. It’s a medical problem just like any other in one’s body below the neck. It’s not a lack of faith or any other spiritual problem. And my worship time with God is just fine. Maybe a little different in style than most however.God can heal me of this of course, but up until now he has chosen not to. I’m ok with that. Why is it that most Christians don’t understand this, or even really care for that matter? Steve
It tells me it’s a problem. That many people struggle with it, and that means they need help.
I don’t care the reasoning behind the struggle. Whether we want to assign the need as “real” or not. Or if we want to explain it away in another fashion.
I don’t think that is important.
I think that wherever people are struggling and in pain, they demand the attention of the church.
Also, I don’t recall Jesus encountering a problem or people in pain and responding by diagnosing their issue as something other than what the person in pain sought him out for. Nor did he attempt to just pawn them off to a professional to deal with.
He just took care of them.
We should do the same.
Awesome. Great statement, Danny.
Wow. So what steps could we take?
Great response, Danny. I had the same thought about Jesus and how he ministered to every person that he healed. No judgement. No lectures. No ‘this is why’.
Los–taking care of people takes on all kinds of forms. Obviously, churches have to foster an environment that welcomes ALL hurting people. If we can get that right, we’d make Jesus smile and maybe even stand in the heavens!! lol
One simple way that we were discussing at church recently is to be practical…take on the “Me, too” ministry. So many people (including myself) struggle with anxiety or even depression because they feel alone. Their emotions or problems, guilt, grief. etc. have taken over their lives and they can’t fathom that anyone else is going (or has gone) through the same thing. When we encounter people that are hurting or struggling with these issues, we must LISTEN first to their hearts and then, if/when they invite you to, relate to them. Often times, we can respond with “Me, too” because we’ve experienced similar hurt/pain/disappointment, etc.
The root of the problem doesn’t matter. The Lord will take care of that with them on a personal level and we have to give room for HIM to minister to them.
And you wonder why some of these positive worship songs aren’t connecting with people. This probably is a huge factor. Don’t ya think?
We try our hardest to escape the realization of our state of being. A hymn that came to mind this morning as my husband preached: Watt’s At the Cross, and the line: For such a worm as I. We are poor and wretched and ship wrecked and lost and pitiful and blind and weak and dependent and prideful and self-serving. And yet we strive to have a good self esteem. Our identity is through Christ’s work on the cross and the very fact that we needed his redemption does not change after we have received it. We still need it. Our redemption brings us that adoption and grafting in, but the line of gratitude is so often crossed into that of expectancy. Whether in Christ or not, society (America) will not, cannot, has no tools to deal with pain or want. When we feel these things we think we are sick and in need of intervention: prescribed and/or self-medicated (addiction). A great read is: Pain: The Gift Nobody Wants by Paul W. Brand, Philip Yancey
Wow. Thanks. I’ll pick up that book for sure.
Yeah, “Pain” is a GREAT book. Really changed my view of pain, how I approach it, treat it, etc. Also, it was awesome to read about how Brand and his wife made such incredible advances in leprosy care in India.
Wow, Jean — you are so right! I will also be looking for this book!
I feel like I should preface this comment by letting you know that this is coming from a recent college grad who isn’t currently involved with the church– so, take it for what it’s worth.
I have had so many friends (people devoted to Jesus, people going to church but still trying to figure it out, and people with lots of other spiritual beliefs) who have battled depression. I don’t feel like it’s anyone’s, especially the church’s, place to determine how valid someone’s depression is. And, I think it’s naive and insulting to assume that if only someone had a better relationship with Jesus, they wouldn’t have to deal with depression. I also don’t feel like I can judge someone’s use of anti-depressants. What good does it do if the church is devoting so much energy to figuring out how valid someone’s battle is and judging whether or not they should be using medication to combat their depression? All of that energy could be used to love people, to be Jesus for them in tangible ways.
One of my friends from college used to go to church and college ministry events with a bunch of my friends and me, but hadn’t made a decision about Jesus. I remember her telling me about her battle with depression and cutting, while begging me not to tell any of our friends and talking about how unacceptable she felt it was in the church. She felt so much shame and like there was no way she could possibly belong if she still had those “issues.” If these imperfect people of the church couldn’t accept her, how could a perfect God?
So, from someone who has been turned off and burnt out by the church, I think the solution may be two-fold: one, it’s about spending so much time loving and serving people that there isn’t time to judge; two, I think if everyone spent a little less time perfecting their facade and a little more time being honest about their own “issues,” maybe more people would feel like there could be a place for them too inside of a body that too often seems reserved for perfect people who have it all together.
Wow.
This was a great read.
And I think it is very important for you to share your thoughts from where you are at.
Thanks!!!
Great thoughts here.
I have said for a long time the church needs to look more like an AA meeting then a political rally…
More honesty and less BS
As someone who suffers from depression and who has a family member with bi-polar, I just wish for once someone would realize these are chemical imbalances. I wish I started taking anti-depressives sooner. I would have been a better wife and mom if I had and I had mild depression. Someone with bi-polar has to take medication or they self-distruct. There is no way they can deal without some sort of chemical help. AS Nicole said it is ignorant of any Christian to think these mental issues can be solved by being more spiritual. The church needs to accept these illnesses like cancer and any other physical illness. I am hopeful that we are making progress in that area. Praying for folks is great, but reaching out to them is best. Nicole I am sorry your friend was treated badly. Stigma is horrible and so unnecessary if people would just try to understand.
Depression… anxiety… our minds are not made to be herded like cattle… the daily grind in lifeless cubicles, the mindless work with no reward for your labors, the constant hawking of advertisers as they tell you “you’re not good enough, pretty enough, cool enough, sexy enough, rich enough, you need more more more… and now now now!” We live from day to day often just hoping to get through to the next day… we escape into “reality TV” to escape our reality
as a society we are keyed up constantly, our fight or flight mechanisms are in a constant state of turmoil because there is no one to fight and nowhere to run too!
We need to show Jesus to people… give them a way out of the materialistic nightmare, satisfaction and peace in the midst of turmoil… He needs to be real… not watered down…
Thanks Jason.
Wound would be a great point!
That’s the same spam I get in my email and in my blog – even as pending comments. Hmmm
Tells me that they have too much money from too much support.
Support from people buy the stuff.
I supposes there are chemical imbalances that need drugs. But it is most likely that the vast majority if from people that are reaching for a quick solution to their woes.
And why are they not coming to Christ first?
hmmm
My brother is on a few different pills and i’m not a doctor but i think he just cant deal with probelems that come his way. He prefers to make things disapear and go away and that’s not dealing with life. He has nothing to refer to, there is no voice of reason. I told him he needed to go back to church, sit for a few masses (and pay attention), and talk to our Preist! He did that and got so much better. He didn’t get in trouble as much, and he did make better desions.
You don’t need to be a “HOly Roller” but you should beleive in something. For me and my life it has always been important. I always refer to the Book and i’ve always found my way. My brother just needed the push and he did it. It’s still a working progess but he keeps moving forward.
This is not a perspective, this is a true story.
As someone who is “saved”, active in church, etc. and also struggling with depression, I find a taste of the general societal uneasiness and ignorance with depression in the comments above.
“why are they not coming to Christ first?”
“the root issue centers on the issue of humility”
What???? I don’t mean to come across harsh, but this smacks of the general “just get over it” approach the general population has to depression.
“Just pray about it, and it will be fine.”
“Go for a walk and get outside, you will feel better.”
No. It doesn’t work that way. If you have a broken arm, is that an issue of humility? If you have high cholesterol, do you just need to spend more time in worship? No reasonable Christian would answer yes to those questions, but that is how people treat depression. Depression is still not a “real” disease to most people, and that is seen in the answers here, and in general conversations about depression.
Depression is a real disease. Treating it as an issue of faith / humility is just going to be a let-down to people when they say “okay i’ve been praying, i’ve been humble, but i’m still depressed. ”
Can prayer help? Yes.
Do I believe God heals? Yes.
Can God help me in my depression? yes, and I believe he is helping me.
The thing I would ask of people is to treat depression like you would any other disease or ailment. We don’t expect people to pray and worship their way out of a broken log, so don’t ask people to pray their way out of depression.
Very well put.
I couldn’t agree with you more! I can’t (and won’t) make a statement about depression in general. But my husband deals with it on occasion and it is a very real, very heavy, completely consuming anxiety. And “casting all your burdens on him” (how many times have we heard _that_ one?) is no easier than removing the cancer from your brain and hurling it at a cloud.
Thanks Greg. That is very well said and so very true. Depression isn’t feeling sad.. anxiety isn’t just worrying too much.. Of course God helps you through those types of illness but he also created the doctors and druggists who discovered the drugs to treat this physical chemical imbalance.
JMO
It is easy to discern who has been there and who has not from the writing above. The truth is that there is that mental illness is just as real as physical illness. When a person gets a cold..or gets cancer, do you tell them they need to go to church and read the Bible more..just because their body is sick?
First, let me say that I am the husband of an amazing woman of God who has been battling clinical depression and anxiety for the last 5+ years. I also happen to work in a church as a worship leader\youth leader.
While there may be some people that are just “making things disappear” or “escaping” there are a lot of people that have something within them that has caused a chemical imbalance that requires medication. I’m guessing it’s probably a lot more than most of us realize.
The reason there are so many different drugs is that there is no single “cure all” for this disease…and it is a disease. As a husband that lives with someone who is going through this I have had to watch as different medications have been prescribed until the right one was found…and this can take months. It’s incredibly painful to watch the person you love deal with the disease AND try and adjust to a new treatment. You really don’t know what helplessness feels like until you’ve been there or watched someone you care about go through this.
For those that would say that the person just needs to “spend more time with God” or that faith will heal them – I WISH that’s all it took! My wife is one of the strongest women of God that I know. She is deep in the Word every day, leads a Bible Study, prayers unceasingly. She has also shared her struggles with countless other women so they don’t feel like they are alone. She walks along side of those that approach her and guides them to Scripture while encouraging them to seek out medical help when appropriate as well.
And I believe THIS is what we as the Church need to do. We need to let people know that it’s OK to come and talk with someone. That they are not alone in their struggles and that we will NOT judge them. We will show them unconditional love them and support them. We aren’t doctors – we are Christians and so we share Christ’s love with them. We take them to their appointments, we call them and ask how they are doing, we offer help in whatever way we can (meals, cleaning, babysitting, etc.). We BE THE CHURCH.
Am I passionate about this…maybe just a little. I guess I just think it’s high time that the church quits pretending like people aren’t dealing with problems. Whether it be depression, pornography, alcoholism, drugs…the list could go on and on…let’s just BE the church.
Jeff, your wife is very blessed to have you as a husband.
Well said. Confident, to the point, but most of all compassionate.
I agree. Well said.
Amen and Amen
Your wife is blessed. I have depression and sometimes feel like such a stranger in my own home.
My husband has talked to me about it. But somehow I just feel *not worthy* to him.
Crumbs – please hear me when I saw that you ARE worthy. You are a child of God…a daughter of The King! As the husband of an amazing woman of God that struggles I know how hard it can be on the both of you.
If you husband is anything like me then he just wants to help and doesn’t know how. Be patient and talk to him about it when you are having a good day – tell him what (if anything) he can do to help you when you are having a bad day – set-up a “code phrase” so he knows (I know my wife hated it when I would ask, “Are you having a good day”).
All my contact information is on my website should either of you need it. Know that I am praying for you and all of those that are struggling.
I see a lot of frustration in these posts regarding the quick fix attitude of most Christians regarding anxiety/depression. I agree that depression is a disease… but where does it come from? like I said in an earlier comment our minds are not meant to be constantly barraged with all the garbage that we are exposed to. also our bodies don’t just decide one day to become chemically imbalanced… our society, the chemicalized foods we eat, our unhealthy lifestyles are 90% of the issue! the disease is caused by outside factors that we accept as safe… but unfortunately they aren’t. After the fact… once you are sick, of course you will need treatment for your depression… but as the church our mission is preventative treatment and restoration care. and both of these involve encouragement and exhortation to look to Jesus for continuing comfort and healing… this is not the wrong thing to do! of course we should cry with our friends and family that are suffering through this… of course we should not discount their pain as imaginary or “lack of faith” but we should always steer people to “the great physician” regardless of our suffering in the flesh (and I have struggled for quite a few years with depression and anxiety- my dad has been bi-polar manic/depressive for his whole life also) Regardless of our suffering in the flesh… Jesus Christ will hold our soul together until our bodies are healed or redeemed…
i have so much to say about this, i don’t even know where to begin…
my mom was diagnosed a manic depressive when i was 14. she spent my teen years in bed and i raised myself. she has tried every medication they’ve made over past 20 years. while she functions occasionally, she has NO coping skills and doesn’t understand the deliverance that Jesus offers. she goes to church when she “feels like it”. she now has 5 grandchildren and has no interest in their lives, my life or my sister’s life.
i, too, am “prone” to depression. the dr put me on antidepressants when i was 11. i took them until i was 24 when i felt the Lord was asking me to try Him instead.
the church does not teach us the power and freedom of the gospel. it does not teach that struggles are not only part of the Christian walk, but they are a requirement. Jesus bows us down in our struggles in order to completely trust in him. that’s not something you want to put on a billboard to invite people to a “relevant” church service. it is a proven statistic that in parts of the world where the church suffers great persecution, there is the greatest growth. we just don’t seem to need THAT Jesus…
KC. Thanks for your story. It is an important view point
Jason, I agree with much of what you are saying. One thing I did want to mention is that for many things, there is a hereditary aspect to it.
I have bipolar II, which from what I have learned, is one of the mental illnesses most highly linked to genetics. Now, that doesn’t necessarily mean that I think if your mama has it, then you’re stuck with it.
I believe that many mental illnesses are similar to things like alcoholism. What I mean is, if my father is an alcoholic, and one of his parents was an alcoholic, then I would be at a higher risk for becoming an alcoholic than someone without and background. Just because that tendency has been there in my family doesn’t necessarily make it so for me.
I believe that mental illness is the same way. If my father struggled with a mental illness and one of his parents struggled with a mental illness, does not necessarily mean that I will have a mental illness. It does however put me at a higher risk.
Which is where I agree with what you’re saying about the influence of society and lifestyle. For people with a tendency towards anxiety, depression, bipolar, any combination of unfortunate life events could be the thing that tips the scale.
This is why, (and I agree with you here as well) that we should always be striving to love as Christ loved us. Because regardless of who we are and where we come from and what tendencies we may or may not have, every single one of us will be better off with a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.
So, now after all of that, I wanted to say that I agree and fully support the posts above that say “It doesn’t matter who or how they’re hurting we just need to show them Jesus.”
I have struggled with my bipolar II since high school (13 years ago) but I only found out what it was I was dealing with about 3.5 years ago. Since I have been labeled, it has been both good and bad. Good personally because I can learn about people dealing with a similar problem. Bad because of the reaction people have when they find out about your label.
When I was diagnosed 3.5 years ago, my husband was the senior pastor of a small conservative rural church. Not one of the regular attenders knew about my struggles and diagnosis. I hid it because I was afraid of what they would say to me, what it might do to my husband’s job.
I didn’t feel like there was a safe place that I could be myself with all of my brokenness and still worship God. Which is my point in all of this, and also why I feel so at home here at Carlos’ blog.
We are ALL broken. We need to be caring for each other and loving on each other and praising God each day that we get up and do it again.
So back to the original question, these commercials tell me that there are a lot of hurting people. I would bet, since I’ve been there, that they don’t feel like they can worship God in their brokenness. I think the church needs to get up off their duff and start being broken. If we as Christ followers are broken publicly then those who are broken privately will see that Christ can help them too.
amen amen amen!!!!! yes! Thank you for your incredible and graceful comment! blessings!
all too often, in my experience, “the church” calls depression/anxiety an excuse and tell people they should, “Just have more faith” or “you aren’t praying enough.”
This is an area that “the church” doesn’t seem to understand or care to understand. It’s sad & pathetic.
Hmmm…I know people who struggle with depression/anxiety. Some have chosen to take it Jesus without medication. And some have chosen to take it to Jesus with medication. I say follow the Holy Spirit’s lead. If you made Christ the leader of your life, go where He leads you. But I would caution those who are led to take medication not look to it to be your healer (it is only a tool God can use), look to Jesus. And seek Him for your emotional balance not the drug because once again, it is only a tool God can use to help those battling mental illness.
I really don’t have much to add to this conversation, but I do thank you for bringing it up. Our family has struggled with this, especially over the last few months.
You are welcome Amy. I think it is important as I have struggled with it as well.
Los
Having battle depression and anxiety ALL my life, I’m 46, and suffering from these two aliments, I can tell you that everyone is wired differently. Some, can become easily depressed, others, addicted to drugs or drinking. I for one praise God that he has given me the gift of a wonderful Doctor who has brought me out of the pit of depression where I lay 9 years begging for help.
The “Church” is not a mental health institution. It is not a place to go when you are physically ill, but it does need to do a much better job of walking with those who suffer and are in anguish. Romans says “There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.” That means it’s o.k. to need meds to be productive, but you need to balance that with a good measure of Jesus. I take meds and may take them all my life, but God has done an amazing work in my life through all the pain and anguish. Now I stand ready to walk with others who are struggling and afraid. That is called biblical community and if Churches utilized their membership/attenders in this way it would go a long way to healing the broken hearted.
I think sometimes the Church today has forgotten how to reach out to the Danny’s of the world. I’m reading George Whitefield’s biography. Talk about intense love of man and fervent desire to preach Jesus.
If anyone reading this is suffering alone, contact me, I’ll walk with you.
Adriana
Thanks for offering Andirana. What is your contact info?
I used to think society was over drugged. But now that I have a daughter that is ADHD and probably will need anxiety medication in the future, I see how big of a problem mental issues can be. I still that there are too many “doctors” out there wanting to make a quick buck and prescribe quickly without therapy. I have already run into this myself. Some of these diseases are heredity and I believe get worse over time from generationt to generation. Be it evolution or whatever. I see how my daughter struggles with day to day activities and I pray symptoms lessen rather than worsens as she ages. Maybe we as a society want that quick fix to our problems, but mental diseases are legit.
The churches role? I think they should be there to support and not judge.
it tells me that people are hurting.
while a lot of people (like myself and other friends I know) do suffer from anxiety and depression and other emotional disorders… many, many people are just wanting to numb a pain that should be satisfied by Christ and community. but they don’t know how. even ones who go to church every week.
the Church does a poor job as a whole to aid to these people. the Church’s responsibility is to love people and spur them on toward Jesus. He is our satisfaction. that’s it. but too often the Church is too busy programming a service, not shepherding.
As a recovering addict who has struggled with depression, I find many of the comments interesting and thought provoking. There seem to be two sides developing in this conversation: The first calling for a spiritual approach and the other calling for a medical/clinical approach as if one might trump the other. Recovery literature approaches the disease of alcoholism as a physical, emotional and spiritual ailment requiring intervention and care in each of these areas. I believe the same of mental illness: there are chemical, emotional and spiritual elements to these symptoms (and yes, mental illness is observed symptoms diagnosed from the DSM – there are no blood tests to confirm or deny them).
For some sufferers a combination of therapy, life change and recovery will allow them to (under the supervision of their psychiatrist) work their way off of medication safely. Some will find that their challenges are more emotional than chemical and once they get to the heart of the challenge the depression will lift. Still others will need to remain on medication in order to remain stable. And in each of these cases, having done all, our mentally ill brothers and sisters will stand and continue forward meeting their challenges where they face them.
So what do we do as the Body of Christ? We love and encourage one another (and others who have not experienced faith) in any and all of these situations. Because that’s what we do.
Amen!
I’m a pastor, and I suffer from anxiety disorder. The issue? I was abused as a child, multiple times and while those memories were suppressed they manifested themselves in other ways. At any point in my life when things felt out of balance it would trigger sexual and pornographic impulses. Now you can say what you want about “needing Jesus,” and “just get over it,” but I lived this hell and I know from personal experience it is very real.
Yes some people just turn to drugs as a quick fix, yes that is a problem. For many others however, it is a real issue that needs to be understood and addressed by the church. We have a responsibility to love like Jesus loved no matter if the person is faking, looking for a fix, or if they are clinically diagnosed. Do some research, there are brain chemical issues that cause some pretty serious conditions.
My point in all of this is that we need to wake up a little bit, prescription drugs are fast becoming the drug of choice. While other people who actually suffer from some sort of issue are taking heat because they need one of these medications.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to rant but it’s a little close to home and I really believe the Church needs to play a larger part in this rapidly growing issue.
Things like pornography, prescription pain killers, depression and anxiety are all signs of a new attack from the enemy. Not to get “spiritual,” but it’s true. Thankfully we have the answer, lets crack some satanic skull!
has anybody had any experience with theophostic therapy? I have heard good things about it but never experienced it directly. Apparently through prayer you go back in your history to where you originally believed lies about yourself and others and God replaces it with truth and healing… those that I have talked to have witnessed a miraculous mental health healing… my understanding is that this is not a short process and involved quite a few sessions with a theophostic counselor but I would say it is worth a look for those dealing with a painful past that they struggle with.
I had several experiences with theophostic counseling last year. Your description Jason is perfect. It is only for those who really are ready to change and to move past the lies. It helped me tremendously. After the experience I also attend bi weekly counseling sessions with a Christian counselor. I would recommend it to anyone who needs more intense help.
I have been reading the comments with interest. The subject is a complex and I believe really hard to put arms around. I “sufferred” with clinical depression for years, I had numerous severe downturns and I didnt know what was going on. There was no one I could go to with the problem. I ended up hopitalized in 97 and begin with the help of medication and therepy to climb out of the cycle I was experieincing over and over again. But, until I got the handle on of the why of my disease and the realization and acceptance that God is my Father and what a perfect Father he is I did not experience healing. The disease was controlled, but not healed. So, winding up, in my experience, meds can get you to a liveable point, but faith can take you to complete healing. Sure, I have my moments, but I never lose hope. By the way, I have been off the meds for 4 years now .. all praise and Glory to God.
These medications do not change reality. What they actually do is change your perception of reality giving the person relief from their affliction, while their physiological (notice I didnt say mental) problems are worked out. Isnt this really what we experience with grace. Grace doesnt change the reality of our condition. We still sin. However, grace changes our perception of that reality!
While some of the responses above point to spiritual and social reasons for depression, I see most of the responses above classify depression, or the need to use anti Depression/anti Anxiety meds as a treatment for mental Illness. The fact is emerging science has proven that a majority of those who suffer from depression have a physiological problem, rather than a mental problem. Depression is usually (although not always) a byproduct of this physiological issue, rather than this cause of it.
From here my response will turn toward scientific explanation. This can be boring to some, so I will go ahead and spoil it for you by telling you how it ends. If you had physiological issue such as diabetes, (which also happens to be an illness that is caused by, rather than the cause of, a physiological problem) and your doctor prescribed medication to help you manage your disease (SURVIVE!). Would you refuse to take the meds and just pray that God would give you more faith to heal you? Or would you take your meds AND pray that God would heal you!
When you prescribe prayer and counseling to cure depression, and ignore the science behind depression, you are putting the cart before the horse. YES, I believe God can supernaturally heal depression! However, if to ignore the medical issue while waiting for him to do so would be foolish. Lets look at why.
A majority of the prescriptive medicine that we see advertised on television are known as SSRI’s or “selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors”. I happen to have a basic understanding of how, and why they work. It has to do with a chemical called Serotonin.
Serotonin contributes to several different bodily functions including digestion and clotting. But this chemical is also essential to healthy mood and emotion. Now dont get me wrong. Increasing the levels of serotonin do not change reality. Like I mentioned above, what it actually does is change your perception of reality.
In the brain, information is transported between two nerve cells by a chemical a small gap between the cells called a synapse. The (presynaptic) cell that transports the messages releases neurotransmitters (such as serotonin) into that gap. These neurotransmitters are recognized by the receptors found on the surface of the recipient (postsynaptic) cell. When the recipient cells are stimulated, they in turn relay the signal. Somewhere around 10% of the neurotransmitters being transported are lost in this process The other 90% are released from the receptors and taken up again by the cell (presynaptic) that originally sent them. This process is known as “reuptake”
To encourage, or cause, the recipient cell to hang onto serotonin, SSRIs inhibit the reuptake of serotonin by the presynaptic cell. This causes the serotonin to stay in the synaptic gap longer than it normally would. So it can be recognized over and over again by the receptors of the recipient cell.
So there you have it.
Im sure enough has been written here to inspire a thousand arguments. Take it for what its worth to you. Pray about it before you respond.
Excellent! Thank you Mike for taking the time to give the scientific explanation. To answer Carlos’ first question: the numerous commercials tell me that there are drug companies trying to sell their product. It’s what they do.
The second question is the real issue and has been the cause for everyone’s argument. Let me start by stating that I am a Mental Health Professional, a Licensed Master Social Worker. I do therapy with children. I know the scientific (aka REAL) symptoms of a mental illness. I see the effects it has on a person. I’ve seen the benefit of medication. Mike explained it exactly right. This is something I tell my clients all the time. Medication does NOT take the problem away. It simply makes the symptoms more manageable so that the person can implement his or her coping skills in order to be functional in daily life. Therefore to say that people run to anti-depressants and anti-anxiety medications as a quick fix is a faulty assumption. The medications don’t “fix” anything. I have also experienced this personally. I take anti-depressants. As do several other family members…as it is genetic. I have also experienced the negative effects of the Church’s stigma toward mental health issues. According to many of the above comments, I do not have enough faith. Nor is there a need for my profession. Maybe I should have not majored in social work and focused on a Biblical degree. Well, the truth is I am also on the pastoral staff at my church. And I received my social work degree from an accredited Christian University and have enough credits for a minor in Biblical studies. I have to fight the stigma all the time. Fortunately, I am currently at a Church that is accepting and loves real people with real problems. Believe it or not well meaning folks have told me in the past that I should stop taking medication because God wanted to heal me. I agree, God wants to heal me just as He wants to heal every disease. But until that day comes I will continue to utilize the resources I’ve been given to manage the illness, including medication. Never would a well meaning person approach someone with heart disease and tell them to stop taking medication.
So, the church’s role is to love, no matter what the illness, sin, or problem. Because the truth is we live in a fallen world. We all have messed up junk in our lives. I also believe the church should be more active in dispelling the myths and stigma associated with mental illness. We should be prepared to help people where they are, on whatever junk they’re in. Jesus always met the people where they were. He met their physical need before meeting their spiritual need.
My uncle jumped off the Golden Gate bridge to his death a number of years ago. My husband’s cousin took a gun to his head probably 15 years ago. Depression is real. It cannot be tackled alone.
Drugs? I don’t have an answer to that. But, I know that a true, pure, holy biblical perspective (Philippians 4:4-9) on ALL of life’s situations can free you from SOOOOOOO much that drugs never can.
God-honoring forgiveness is more powerful. Love is more freeing. Being set free from the prison of a worldly perspective can breathe life into your aching bones.
Job knew heart-ache. David knew heart-ache. They both wanted to die. Jonah? Jonah wanted to die too.
Ask God questions. Tell Him your fears. Trust Him.
If you have not jumped full-in to the life-giving power of God’s living Word, then GO FOR IT!!! It truly can set you free.
Humbly, honestly, sweetly,
Melissa
Thank you
I struggle with this the most because I feel like I am prone to be depressed more then I am happy.
Where I struggle with this is that to everyone I look like I am doing fine…in all reality I am depressed because I am struggling to find meaning and purpose.
I think that is where a lot of this is coming into play. Instead of finding happiness in what you have and what you can obtain, I think we need to focus more on happiness in grace of Christ.
Having a Dad as a psychologist makes things interesting as well for myself. But I am still battling motivation issues, and the fear of making wrong decisions and depression. Can be pretty paralyzing at times.
I am sitting here reading all of the comments with tears rolling down my cheeks. I am so very thankful that this is something that is FINALLY being brought to the table. I have longed for a someone to bring up the very REAL battle that people struggling with depression face. As a young woman who has dealt with depression for 7 years, I have grown weary of fellow believers, even my own dad, telling me that I continue to struggle because I “do not have enough faith.” I have lost many dear friends because they think I am “making it up.”
I have sought HARD for the Lord’s healing in the unexplainable pain I face at times. I am not fully healed… YET. But I hold tight to the hope that one day, Jesus will set me free from it. For now, some days are better than others. And I know that even when I am having a bad day, the Lord is close to me, with his arms around me and catching every tear. My depression is very real. The pain is very real. But I know that my God is real.
So Los, I cannot say “thank you” enough for bringing this issue to the table. For opening up the discussion that has been needing to happen in the Christian community for years. I have sought guidance, wisdom, and help from church for a long time, only to be felt ashamed. I pray that this will be the start of a new day for myself and all others hurting.
I think God will use my experience at some time in the future to help other people with this problem.
Like Big Mike described, some brains are broken. Mine was, and SSRIs didn’t really help. Only recently, I’ve discovered some natural ways to increase serotonin and dopamine production that actually work.
As proof of my improved outlook, I’m actually hoping I can share this with someone and help them out of the ditch, just like someone helped me by sharing their research into natural health.
I’m hoping again!! This is progress!!
I’m frustrated by many comments I see here, as they seem to imply it’s either God’s cure or the world’s cure. My question is: Why can’t it be both?
For the record, there is no amount of prayer and counseling to be found in a church that can “fix” my ex-husband’s bipolar disorder. There is no preacher that I’ve ever sat with that taught me the relaxation, meditation, practical thought processes or any other tools that help combat my anxiety. (I had to learn those from secular counselors, even though I worked through a multitude of christian ones.)
There was plenty of judgement in the church though – of not having enough faith, not trying enough.
Again, why can’t it be both? I read a story once –
Two girls were on their way to school and were going to be late. Once sat on the side of the road and said, “I’m going to pray that we are not late”. The other girl said, “well, I’m going to run and pray while I’m running”.
God expects us to turn to him, but he also expects us to use all the tools he’s given us in this world to be successful. That includes getting help when you need it and yes, it includes medication too for some people.
My medication helps me be a better mother, a better friend, a better wife, a better leader and most of all, a better child of God.
And…. not OR. When will the church realize that?
Completely Agree! The guilt and judgement we put on people only increases their struggles. Medications have a real and necessary place. I think we need to help people realize a balance as well though – counseling and faith coupled with medication as you have done.
I would second much of what’s already been said. I’ve personally battled depression for some time, though I don’t think I always knew what it was or wanted to address it. But, when my hand was forced to address it it was a huge sense of relief. I think unfortunately too many churches today A) give the impression that you have to be “perfect and happy” or “right with God” BEFORE you can come in and/or B) with Jesus your life will be gumdrops and lollipops. I think we have to help people find the hope that comes with knowing your Savior. The hope that endures despite the challenges and pain life throws our way. But that takes time. Instead we want the easy way out.
I used to feel so guilty when I went through bouts of depression. I would tell myself that if my faith was just strong enough i should be happy. That’s what I had been taught. Then I heard a talk on the difference between happiness and joy. That changed things for me in a big way. As a Christian I always have joy because that is found in hope. But happiness is circumstantial and that comes and goes and that’s okay because jesus didn’t promise happiness, in fact he promised pain. I don’t think we the Church do a good of job letting people know it’s okay to be unhappy, it’s okay to feel pain, but that there’s hope.
I think I was watching that same show.
Carlos,
Good observation last night regarding the mental health commercials.
I have spent my whole life in the church (pastor’s kid, attender, pastor, etc, etc.) I’ve spent the last 15 years in ministry and then about 6 years ago I decided to go back to grad school to get a masters in marital and family therapy. Because what I realized is that I wasn’t equipped to handle the serious problems arising in the ministry I was pastoring. In fact, I was finding more than not that though pastors were good on the front lines and good resources, they often caused more problems than were necessary when trying to tackle serious issues of anxiety and depression.
I think the role of the church in this issue is to be a supportive and loving community, and outside of some basic counseling, I think that people should be referred to specialists (whether pastoral counselors, marriage and family therapists, social workers, etc.). I have a lot of reasons for that, one primarily being issues of liability and boundaries that most churches and pastors rarely consider…and if they haven’t, they should…unaddressed, this lack of consideration has brought down more than one church or its pastors.
I’m now in full time mental health work as a marriage and family therapist and part time in ministry. And even if I feel equipped to handle a problem on staff, I still refer out.
Anxiety, depression, bipolar….they are real issues, and Christians do much damage to others when they minimize it, or throw Bible verses at people.
I will stop there, but have a lot of thoughts on this topic. I’ve written more here, http://rhettsmith.com/?s=depression%2C+anxiety
The problem with the church is that we separate the mental and the spiritual. We council someone until we find that they are too “mentally ill” for the church to help, and we send them along to a psychiatrist.
We ignorantly mistake this brokenness of spirit to be “spiritual failure” and ultimately mental breakdown. However, this brokenness of spirit inevitably precedes the entrance of God’s kingly rule in our lives. These mental pains are actually a part of the birth pangs of the spirit.
Instead of suppression (to the point of repression) of these problems and illnesses (a.k.a chopping the tops off, making them unseen but leaving the problem to rest under the surface), we, as the church, should be pulling them out by the root and exposing them. In this way we can finally allow God to establish His authentic life in those once hidden places.
We can creatively face the dread of our deepest problems, character flaws, issues and sin, and use them to discover the binders that keep us chained to these compulsive patterns of behavior and self-frustrating, self-destructive faults of character. Once finally discovered we can creatively and earnestly work to overcome these depths of hell.
The book Clinical Theology, by Frank Lake, deals with this exact issue (and other mental issues). It sounds like a boring title but is, in fact, an extraordinary read.
“These mental pains are actually a part of the birth pangs of the spirit.” Mmmmm that’s good right there.
“[W]e, as the church, should be pulling them out by the root and exposing them. In this way we can finally allow God to establish His authentic life in those once hidden places.” AMEN!
I definately don’t think the church can determine if you should take medication for depression. However, a person goes through some kind of depression at some point in there life. I think a person should continually rely on God and the church for support but at the same time go and see a family doctor about any symptoms they are having. It is the church’s job to support and love that person because we have all been through some low point in life where God breaks us to put us back together. I definately agree with taking pills for depressiion when diagnosed and this allows churches to grow closer and really become one.
Boy this is a tough topic for me. I have two beautiful daughters who are now 6 and 8. These angels are only “mine” because of the tragic death of their own mother.
Two innocent children lost their mother to suicide after her depression went untreated and her mind was left to its own devices and prayer, which wasn’t enough to save her. She went to her pastor the week before she died, which happened to be on a cold Easter Sunday when her wide eyed preschool aged daughters should have been looking for eggs and not finding their dead mother in bed, cold from drugs ravaging her system in an overdose. Her pastor told her to pray. I have no doubt she prayed hard, probably harder than she ever had before. I imagine her laying in that bed with pills surrounding her as she for an answer, for a relief to her pain. I’m sure she prayed for the children she would leave behind.
See, this is hard for me because her church family failed her. When her behavior became erratic and it was clear she wasn’t mentally sound anymore, people turned away from the impending disaster instead of opening their hearts to her. On that Easter Sunday when she wasn’t at church, no one called or stopped by to find out why, even though her home was only two houses down from the church she faithfully attended for 7+ years.
I’ve lost a lot of faith because of this. I keep hoping this whole “ragamuffin” thing will bring me a little closer which is why I keep coming back nearly every day for the past year. But honestly, some of the comments leave me further isolated from a spiritual community I so badly want to belong to, one that accepts mental illness as a true disease and embraces those who struggle with it without the platitudes about praying the chemical imbalance away as though the only acceptable solution is God’s grace. That is part of the solution, but as a sole answer to mental illness, it left my daughters without the mother who bore them from her womb, who breastfed them and cared for their boo-boos, the mother who had hopes and dreams for them. All they are left with a fuzzy memories and more questions that this world will ever have answers.
Words can’t even describe the sadness I feel on your behalf. I am so sorry your sister was not loved by her church. It is heartbreaking to hear and a good wake up call for me to pay attention to those around me who are hurting.
What do you guys think of this? Apparently people are becoming depressed over the fact that the fantasy world in Avatar, Pandora, is something they can never live in.
One person says “I even contemplate suicide thinking that if I do it I will be rebirthed in a world similar to Pandora and the everything is the same as in Avatar.”
http://www.cnn.com/2010/SHOWBIZ/Movies/01/11/avatar.movie.blues/index.html
I’m one of those people. I have several things I’m dealing with. It’s not easy. Not at all. It would be such a wonderful thing if I could ask for prayer at church without wondering what everyone is going to say about me after I announce “I’d like to ask for prayer. You see the thing is that sometimes I see and hear things that aren’t really there. Sometimes I cry because I have to leave my house. There are times when I’m so angry that I can’t trust myself to be around others. Then there are times when I’m so overwhelmed by the smallest of things that I’m unable to function. I’d like you to pray for me. Please.” The stigma is so great and the fear of rejection is overwhelming. If we could just be able to come forward with these things with the confidence that we would be taken seriously and treated compassionately. That our problems would be held in the strictest of trust that as soon as church is over that the whispers wouldn’t begin.
Oh yeah, I happen to be the wife of the pastor too. Isn’t that a hoot.
I hope someday the stigma lessens and you can publicly ask for the prayers you so desperately desire. But for now, your pain resonates in my heart and tonight you are at the top of my prayer list. I pray that your heart, mind and soul will find peace. It may not mean much but at least you know someone in Kansas is praying for you.
For me, it’s just too easy to point the finger at what everyone else should be doing…so, as I grow older (and hopefully wiser), I try less and less to consider what “the church” could or should do and think more about what I can do and what my family can do to make a difference in the lives of others.
Here is an example of something my wife did recently and I’m really proud of her for it: http://www.beautifulcanvas.org/2010/01/this-time-around/
Very simply, she told a little bit of her story when she had depression. It may seem small but since her post she’s received several emails and phone calls from women who are struggling in the same way my wife has. And my wife has been a great encouragement to these women. Did I mention that I’m really proud of my wife?!!!
If you saw someone caught in a sandstorm being slowly buried alive, would you: A. point out they were in a sandstorm being slowly buried alive B. tell anyone who will listen, that you have never been the kind of person to get caught in a sandstorm C. Walk away because you can’t stand sand D. Recommend a book about sandstorms E. Ask Jesus to teach you to love like he loves, get in the sandstorm with them, hold their hand, pray, cry, shout, dig, ….love them anyway.
This is a topic that is very real for me. I was diagnosed with clinical depression last year. Actually, looking back, I have been dealing with it for almost half my life. The first place I went was to the church where I was told that I “needed to pray more,” my faith wasn’t “strong enough,” and that I needed to be delivered from my demons and learn to live with joy.
Actually, I found more help within the church for the eating disorder and self injury that were co-current with my depression for years. For some reason those were perceived as worthy of help, but the underlying depression wasn’t.
Long story short, last year I found an amazing Christian health clinic that worked with me to figure out the root problem of the depression. One low dose anti-depressant and hormone treatment gave me my life back. Unfortunately I lost some friends over these medical choices. I have come to the conclusion that if a friend couldn’t stand with me because I made a choice to use a combination of medications and biblical accountability to deal with the depression, then they weren’t the friends that I thought that were to begin with.
Before I started my treatment I was unable to hold a job. I spent 16+ hours a day in bed. I had trouble eating. My life was not a life at all. Now I hold two part time jobs, am working on my masters degree, volunteer regularly at the local crisis pregnancy center – I’m living life again. Sometimes I struggle to get out of bed still. I know my God, my Jesus, is with me. I am held in the arms of God. I am loved with the love that saved the world.
i wish no one needed meds. I wish and used to think that Jesus should be our only physician. But now people very very close to me (related) are facing depression. I just want them to be ok and better and back to “normal” i think these kind of issues are just not understood enough – how do I learn how to respond to someone who is up and down and down and moody all the time because of what seems like depression? Of course Jesus CAN heal, but doesn’t always bring healing the way we hope for…my thinking has certainly shifted a lot recently in this, i think mostly out of ignorance – we simply don’t know enough about it as regular people not medical field that we jump to assumptions.
The assumptions are hard to avoid. When I first got my diagnosis I stumbled upon a blog that presents information on several mental illnesses from a Christian perspective. http://morethancoping.wordpress.com/ This page has helped me understand what is going on in my body and mind a little better, as well as giving me insight into other mental illnesses that are out there. Maybe it can help you out a bit.
I came across this site as a result of somebody following the link from the prior post to my blog.
You can’t separate a discussion about depression from panic disorder, OCD, bi-polar disorder, and PTSD. These are “mental illnesses” that plague many in our society and that includes the church.
There is a portion of the church that sadly sees mental illness as a spiritual issue. I was told that because of my panic disorder that I was in sin. I had a man seek to cast the devil out of me. Others told me my faith needed to be stronger.
In stating the above I represent thousands in the church who have been driven into the shadows because fear of being judged and found wanting. These people are not receiving the help they need and are living lives of quiet desperation. This includes those in church leadership and their family members.
My blog is my effort to offer hope and encouragement to those in the body who need it. I offer a lot of information with referrals to churches and a safe environment for people to visit. I do not allow any negativity or debate on my blog as there are many other places on the net for that to take place.
I am a lay person and have a heart for those who are struggling. So I offer what I can to try and make a difference.
There is a mission field within the church desperately desiring to seek help without the fear of being minimized in one fashion or the other, many times by well meaning people.
I don’t advocate medication or professional counseling although I’m convinced God has placed these resources in our midst. Some simply need to be able to talk freely with a brother or sister who’s willing to listen. Others require Pastoral counseling while others will require professional help.
I know I’ve arrived late to this topic but please feel free to drop by and check my blog out. If you happen to be a professional counselor or part of a church that would be willing to allow me to list them as a resource please contact me.
My email is at erunner54@gmail.com and my blog is found at http://www.morethancoping.wordpress.com God bless you! Allan