Online Nastiness vs. Offline Wussiness
I meet lots of people who are LOUD online and really soft offline…
I met a guy last week who ripped the hell out of me on my blog a few weeks ago and he smiled and acted like we were BFF’s in real life when we accidentally ran into each other.
I don’t get it.
I mean if you are going to call someone out online and spew your theology all over them…Shouldn’t you do that offline as well?
So I asked him…
He said…”Oh…oh…It’s all good bro. It’s all good.”
Like he didn’t want to talk about it face to face.
What gives? I get it. It’s easy to sit in your whitey tighties at 2 am in your living room and type like a mad man.
To roar loudly through your avatar.
I just wish the cajones that are displayed online would translate offline.
Then conferences and offline gatherings would be much more entertaining.
When was the last time you saw some nastiness go on online that you KNEW would never happen offline?
Los
RAIN IT DOWN
Today. It was gross. Enough said.
Where?
Youtube, for one. Land of anonymous insanity.
Oy. There is no cesspool deeper than the comments section of YouTube.
I dunno man. Check any political article on CNN. At least the people on youtube are preteens.
i use youtube, but i’ll put my name on it, and i’m willing to say things OFFLINE that i’m willing to say ONLINE.
If I say it on my site or my Utube account, you better believe i’ll say it to your face.
Whatever dude.
wow…grow a pair…
My church just started a basketball league.
I think the basketball courts and online can be synonymous.
I didn’t know basketball can be an excuse for odd behavior, like the the internet. Haha.
Good thing there is such thing as Grace and that we aren’t judged by works.
Thank you Jesus.
But the last time online nasty happened? Where else, but Facebook.
I’ve never seen elders and church leaders use so much profanity until they got involved with our sports ministry.
There’s a movie called Church Ball that illustrates that absurdity. Pretty funny.
iiiiiiiiiiiiiii KNOW.
we’ve actually got a photographers tweetup in my area i went to ONCE. because online these dudes (i’m one of like 3 chicks) are nice, sarcastic, outgoing, friendly! in person? they stick to the folks they know like glue, are socially awkward and shy/quiet.
it was the most bizarre thing ever.
This was so funny- so true to photographers, a largely introverted crew. I am certainly one- though I push my social awkwardness aside for the sake of rich relationships
Photographers are also FAMOUS in my book for throwing all manner of criticism and judgement on competition’s work/prices online in forums, blogs, etc, and I know essentially nearly none of those who rant have ever actually had the social skills to either a) allow themselves to concentrate on their own work and keep interactions involving others productive and not toxic to their attitude and creativity or b) thought to kindly, personally speak to, for instance, the people they complain about.
I understand why they complain, or whatever, but don’t choose to take part in it- especially not in the online insanity. Some days it makes me a bit ashamed to call myself one, though it’s a craft and profession I love wholeheartedly. I just want to thrive in my work, help other photographers, and bring humanity back in where people like this have thrashed it.
This is similarly how I feel when Carlos hits a heavy topic that sends some readers (as above) into a tailspin of harsh commentary that is not productive at all. I can see, through things like this, why people react strongly to the Christian label.
on the other hand, some of us are loud, obnoxious, grumpy after traveling too much (that’s me)…
I guess it’s different offline because you can’t walk around and call yourself anonymous and have no face.
Politically, I am on the conservative/libertarian side of most issues. One liberal blog that I read (I’ve known the author for 8 years) has a comments section loaded with people like this. If you didn’t know me, and accepted their conclusions about what kind of person I am, you’d think I was a Confederate flag waving, KKK leader who wants to starve children and throw old people out on the street.
Worse yet, many people do this ANONYMOUSLY. I don’t hide my identity online so I find it even more cowardly when I am being verbally attacked by some guy named “Fafaroo.”
hilarious…
Today. Every story I’ve read concerning Anne Rice’s decision to no longer call herself a Christian, but simply a follower of Christ, has at least a few people “roaring loudly through their avatar”, which is humorous, since those are the “Christians” that drove her to her decision.
I get her decision. I concur. I had rather call myself a follower of Christ as well. It reminds me of the episode of “The Office” where they had Diversity Day and Michael asked the Mexican character, “Is there another name I can call you other than Mexican? It has such a negative connotation..” His response was..”Michael..That’s who I am. I’m a Mexican. There’s no negative….”
I understand where she is coming from on that point.
I called out an old co-worker (in a nice way) for gossiping some really awful untrue things about me. I got an extremely nasty email back in return, where I was disowned as a friend, intern, and ministry family member. And yet, I’ve seen him twice in person since them and he was too much of a coward to do anything but stand there and smile and pretend nothing was wrong between us.
Nothing like the possibility of an actual real-life ass kicking to transform the nastiest troll into a back patting bff. it’s laughable, really.
Remember high school? Yeah, this topic is a lot like that. It was always easy to gossip, talk trash, grand stand behind someone’s back or to other people. But it’s whole different story when you’re face to face. I wish i could say i’m innocent & never raged with my keyboard, but sadly i’m not. What i do remember feeling afterwards though was that i was a complete & utter jackwagon. I imagine Mr. Anon you confronted today feels the same now lol.
It’s been going on since the BBS days of dial-up. Before that you had to write a hate-letter and *mail* it to be a coward. I ran a Christian-based forum for almost a decade and had to deal with it on a daily basis. My mantra of “It’s not what you say, it’s how you say it” was backed diligently dealing with cyber-bullies and trolls – rescuing other forum members and myself as well. If something didn’t sound right or didn’t fit with my mission, I deleted it (MOST of the time with an explanation, but not always). A lot of times that made ME look like a bad guy.
I feel for you and other Christians who are attacked from behind a screen. Just be glad that no one ever took the time to write a very one-sided, SEVEN-PART series on how much of a jerk I am. I reluctantly post the link to it: http://bit.ly/cBO8Xl.
The guy actually has a lot of good stuff to say about online communities, but he did it at my expense. He’s a smart guy and very eloquent. But he really exaggerated the situation and twisted information. He left out SO much, judged me unfairly and left me NO redeeming attributes. That made the whole “series” ironic and hypocritical.
Anyway, I hear you loud and clear. The pain goes away. Unfortunately, mean people don’t.
Hang in there and keep up the great work!
oops — “on how much of a jerk I am.” Oh, wait, someone did! Should be “on how much of a jerk YOU are”.
Sorry for too many replies. After 5 years I forced myself to re-read the series of blogs that I referenced. The author really cleaned it up. He did a major re-write on it and took out most of the inflammatory remarks. It’s the “soft” version. That’s a good thing. However you can see some of the anger in the replies toward the site and it’s “leader” to an extent that is doesn’t make fit the blog. Those are comments in response the old version. Still really twisting the facts about what happened…
Anyway, I’ll shut up about it now.
I think the key is, when this happens, to engage the manner in which someone behaves and not the content. That happens a lot on YouTube, I think: people get caught up in the content of what someone is saying before stopping and saying, ‘Woah, woah, you just really insulted me: I wish you wouldn’t behave like that.’
I also think that we are willing to do really awful things if we think no one is watching (embarassing porn search keywords?) because we are social creatures, evolved to understand morality (and consequences for our actions) in terms of those around us. When we don’t think there are consequences, we behave like there are none.
The key to making the Internet a livable place is integrating on and offline realities and making those consequences real. And letting people feel the effects of being an online asshole in the real world.
Surprisingly, I had some crazy email me about how wrong my theology was and that. They then proceeded to berate me offline about how wrong I am. Over coffee.
Online meanies: I love getting passive-agressive rebukes, sugar coated with Christianese like ‘brother’ and ‘lets explore together’. I commented once on an article about gender and ministry on a fairly conservative site. It didn’t go well.
I used to head up a voluntary ISP usergroup – gave over 20 hours a week and as a group we achieved a lot and yet I came in for a whole load of abuse, hatred and personal lies.
A couple of the people were folks who I had met in real life and who I got along with really well – both on and offline up until the abuse began. Once the abuse began the whole two-sided nature emerged. Friendly to my face, poison behind my back.
As one poster has already commented – this has been a “feature” of online communities since the early days of BBS’ and I’ve seen it no end of times.
The challenge I’ve found is to let those comments go, forgive the folks involved, search for any truth in the comments, take that on board and then move on.
Since then I’ve found that the best thing to do is to be guarded about where I post, how I post and what I post.
I just deleted a whole lot that I needed to write but probably didn’t need to post. I know so well what you mean.
In a previous profession people used to slam me in emails and over the net, when I saw them they acted like it never happened. When I asked about it they didnt want to talk about it..
People who attend the IBC I went to. Apparently FB was a culture shock to them, so whenever I posted anything other than a Bible verse, they would comment really pointed posts. In person? Act like nothing happened.
nicodemusatnite.blogspot.com
ALL. THE. TIME. In my own family, even, and it is heartbreaking.
It comes down to anonymity. Same as answering a survey with the understanding of no one knowing it was you/me who said this. As a human race (most of us) are afraid of judgment regardless of our convictions.
My motto is this: Do not say out loud or online what I would not be willing to say to the person’s face.
This is not always an accepted philosophy as personally I am not too much afraid to talk out loud.
As a red-head, people ask If I have a temper? No. I do not have a temper, but I am very passionate about a lot of things.
In answer to your question…yesterday. I know that in my younger years…I fell into the “wuss” category. But now, I do my best to be real in every situation.
The news sites are getting really bad for this. There are even news articles about the comments on new sites.
It amazes me how bad it is on there. Almost as bad as YouTube.
passive aggressive outlet anyone? passive aggressive? Simply leave vague but incendiary remarks on your FB status/twitter/blogs/etc., or (better yet), misquote some piece of scripture that you think slams the other person in your status and postscript “Lord, help me to live this today” For bonus points, have an offline conversation with another wuss so they can comment on your status similarly. Remember to keep it vague enough so you can a) bait other people in b) either ambush or evade the subject c) spread the poison. As a passive-aggressive wuss, it’s important to remember if you meet in person to avert your eyes, look like you’ve been whipped, and *emote* injury. Don’t be just an offline wuss. Be an offline injured wuss.
hahaha awesome
Check the comment section under almost any article on CNN.com – it’s ridiculous!
Ugh this happens all the time. Someone I know has one of those i-hate-obama conservative blogs, and basically just exercises his right to crap on everything he doesn’t like. In real life he’s the most akward and shy guy you’ve ever met. Drives me nuts.
Tight whities man…there’s courage built into the waistband.
Perhaps some of the “loudness” is directed at a certain issue, not the person. When commenting on a blog post, you are focused on a small issue. When you meet face to face, that issue takes a backseat to accepting the whole person. Kind of like that awesome perspective post recently.
I do realize that this isn’t true for every situation, but also realize that context is lost online and thing sometimes get blown out of proportion.
I get DMs on twitter sometimes accusing me of being everything but the anti-christ. That’s really wussy because they don’t even send it publicly. Really wish we could put our differences aside and hold on to what matters.
AMEN. i’m ready for that day!
We live in a land of coward men. We are able to talk a big game here! But when we don’t have google close to us where we can go pull of some article that someone else wrote and prove someone wrong we’re wimps!
I agree there are things that are worth fighting over, but if you can’t do it in person, but only online your the looser in the Brad Paisley Video.
If this is the dude who ripped you in the photo above I can see 1,000 things wrong with this photo and he does not really have true authority, in his home, but is a theology nerd with no real power.
very sad!
I love this quote from Matt Chandler:
“The thing that disturbs me lately is that it seems that the goal is something else all together. The goal is growing our churches to a certain size or our platforms (pulpits, blogs, books) to a certain fame. How hollow is that? And, how dangerous? Just because men love Jesus and follow Him doesn’t mean that they get to grow or reach a certain level of “success” (I use that word loosely).”
Los,
What i like about your blog is that your upfront with us. I may not agree 100% of the time, but atleast i know where you stand. and I can respect and love that!
What it all boils down to is that Jesus is the only one got it right and the rest of us are just guessing, and attempting to live this thing like HE did.
I would venture to guess as well he used or uses an Alias.
The internet is populated with opinions, not people. It’s easy to berate an opinion, entirely different when that opinion is wrapped in flesh.
gotta love the keyboard warrior / “I take my internet super serious” jerk subculture.
Ever check out the Flame Warriors website? It’s a must; some of the best comedy on the nets related to this: http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/
To use a line from the late Zac Smith… “I’m pickin’ up what you’re layin down”.
I’ve seen a lot of this kind of thing. I know YouTube comments were mentioned above. Is it weird if I DO have the cajones to say out loud, in person, what I say on my blog? In fact… it’s probably skewed more in the other direction! I have been getting better at watching what I say on my blog because I know people from my congregation read it, my bosses read it, and all that stuff. I’ve gotten reprimanded for a blog post before and was asked to take it down and write an apology. I did.
I’m much more apt to spew my beliefs in person, face-to-face, than I am online. The main reason I guess is because the online space allows for people to take what you said and apply it differently than it was meant to come across. It’s much easier for me to explain myself in person.
As to this dude’s comment, ”Oh…oh…It’s all good bro. It’s all good.” I wonder if he was just surprised to meet you. Digging deeper… it sounds like he could be jealous of you Los.
That’s probably a subject for another blog post huh?
Last weekend’s political conversation over at StuffChristiansLike.
I disagree with you theologically more often than I’d like, Los, and would be more than willing to discuss the topics in person if that was what I felt the Holy Spirit leading me to do. : )
Then again I’m not the one to turn into an angry loud mouth online, so I would have nothing to “fear” in real life.
hahaha.
I love a good spiritual conversation.
Lets do it!!!!
He called you bro? When I read that I immediately thought of this scene from Gran Torino: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM8iT1UHnjI (warning: don’t watch it if bad language or racial slurs bother you). “They don’t want to be your bro and I don’t blame ‘em. Get your ofay paddy ass on down the road.” Clint Eastwood makes Chuck Norris pee himself.
A lot of people are saying it’s the anonymous thing, but I have to disagree. Sometimes it is, but often it goes beyond that. I’ve received emails from people I know and think to myself how they would NEVER say the rude things they did if we were face to face.
A few years ago, one gal FB messaged my wife to let her know she was leaving the church because of her and just ripped into how rude she is. Funny thing is, anyone who knows my wife said, “Are you sure they weren’t talking about you?” My wife is about as sweet as they come.
My wife messaged back apologizing and inviting her to coffee to clear anything up because she had never intended to hurt her. I even met with her husband about it. My wife never heard from her again. I’m pretty sure she wouldn’t have said any of those things had they been face to face.
Words can do some damage.
Perhaps it’s easier to do it from behind a keyboard because you don’t have to see the damage you’re doing on the other side.
I totally agree Bobby.
I know NO ONE would actually say half the stuff we say online in real life…
The college I went to had a student-run site that was considered an “anonymous confessional” where people would say all kinds of stuff… Most of which would never be said to someone’s face.
the man who currently teaches in my church’s pulpit (can’t bring myself to call him my pastor) has a website that can be obnoxious occasionally. I cannot fathom why the elders allow him to post some of his articles. Very disheartening. I’m just waiting him out. Hope he changes or moves on.
Have you discussed this with him before? Maybe he doesn’t know you find it offensive.
Last time I talked about my political beliefs on Facebook. “Friends” came out of the woodwork to inform me how deranged and ignorant I was.
This one reason why consistency in blogging by bloggers is so crucial in this new age of “everyone has something to say.” The reality not everyone has something worth saying, and therefore it’s made the sheer volume of information accosting.
Thanks for being one solid lighthouse in the interweb’s gambit of morons. ch:
“Then conferences and offline gatherings would be much more entertaining.”
Dude, that WOULD be entertaining. We could have a Christian Jerry Springer Show/Conference! We’ve got Christian versions of everything else. Why not Springer? I mean, he’s been off the air for at least a few years so that would make it about the right time to launch the Christian version.
Hmmm…must stop. Feeling a bit too scarcastic at the moment. Go-go filter on (after I click submit, of course)!
I just don’t like it when people are very friendly and outgoing on the internet and then when you see them in “real life” they mumble a few words to you and look down.
Hilarious. I have had the exact same thing happen to me several times. You know me – I’m a big boy. As a matter of fact, I went to volunteer for flood relief in Nashville a couple of months ago. I was working side by side with Tennessee Titans Pro Bowl center, Kevin Mawae. I was taller and bigger than him. It dawned on me that I was the size of an NFL lineman.
All that to say, people don’t realize that when they rip you online or in a nasty email. When they see you in person, it’s a totally different story. I agree. If people showed the same passion offline as they seem to online, it would be quite entertaining.
You made me laugh, bro – cause I can totally relate – and for that I thank you.
So true. Crazy how brave people are behind a keyboard.
Oh man. We needed more time for my offline loudness to come through. It was still “a pleasure to meet you” though brief…
I told Crystal I wouldn’t embarrass her too much while we were out in public…
No way. I saw you flip me off when I turned around.
As someone who has been online in some form since mid-80s, I learned long ago to just be me. It has been my experience that those who have online “multiple personality disorder” are not yet really comfortable with themselves…and generally “in real life” somewhat socially inept. With the huge increase in ways to express ourselves online, it is sad, IMHO, that more don’t learn to just be who they are, whether online or off. If one truly believes in what they are typing – then they should have the courage of their convictions when meeting in person. Otherwise, their comments should be taken with a grain of salt..and yeah..grow a pair, grow a life..just GROW UP! In the meantime, let’s communicate, forgive and talk it over in honesty!
I do agree with you here, no one should feel they have the conviction to write what they feel through their FINGERS but not be able to articulate it. IT comes from the same place, the heart. If you have convictions, it’s cool, stick with them, no biggie, we agree to disagree, but let’s try to keep LOVE and kindness in the middle of it. It’s biblical people, sorry.
Once those are gone, we are no longer reflecting the KING.
M