The 40 Hour Church Staff Work Week
Before the church had “offices”, which was not very long ago, the ministers were out in the community doing “church”
Offices are important in a sense that it allows meetings to happen and stuff to get done.
But there is so much great space around you that you are missing out on.
And guess what is inside that space?
Local business owners who are not going to your church.
People who are not going to your church.
People who are not coming the Sunday service that you are planning while you are inside your church offices.
So what if your church implemented a policy that you must work 25 hours from the office and 15 hours outside the office?
I would think that the same amount of work IF NOT MORE could get done.
And you would accidentally get more work done in the community than you have ever before.
Maybe I’m just an idealistic romantic dreamer.
Maybe, or maybe I’m right and you are working way too much inside the church when you are supposed to be outside it.
Would this work in your situation?
Thoughts?
Los
RAIN IT DOWN
love that idea. too often it’s easy to get trapped in an office.
Yup. For YEARS
I agree wholeheartedly. This has to be a paradigm shift for the whole church. Ministers struggle with the view that they “only work on Sundays” and try to overcompensate for that by keeping regular office hours. The problem is that the lives we intersect are rarely found in our offices. If the whole church grabs the concept of missional living, it is just natural for the minister be out on the mission.
Couldn’t agree more.
We all know those pastors are busy playing farmtown or whatever anyways!
How many times can pastors go out for coffee with each other before they notice all the other people that go to the same coffee shop…
I agree with your idealism. It makes more then enough sense.
So how do we make this happen?
I guess it’s a matter of re-training. Funny how just being in the office is called “work” heck we all know we’ve wasted time sitting watching youtube or RT the latest news.
Re-train the perception that work happens inside & outside the walls of the church and the office. Perception will change when results happen I guess. How do you think it’ll happen?
I worked at a ministry that did require this. We were told to find 2-3 places to become regulars and spend time there, meet with people there, do any type of computer work that can be done….etc.
We found that it brought many people into our ministry, and we had to start re-thinking what it meant to be full time ministers…especially since we also had to train others that we simply wouldn’t be in the office.
The practice to make yourself a “regular” at places was one of the best ministry lessons I learned. I really enjoy my daily trips to the gas station to get coffee now, and have found other unorthodox places to visit often.
Love it!
What I love about what you said is that you “had to start re-thinking what it meant to be full time ministers.” Can you really be a “full time minister” if you aren’t ministering full time? I know that when I’m in the office I’m not ministering (serving) to anyone but my computer. I’m a paid church staffer who ministers during services and rehearsals.
Great thought.
1000% in agreement. It works. I have proof.
I would not have met the musician with the gages in his ears, or the local marketing guy at the coffee shop who both are not anywhere near a church on Sundays.
I tried doing that at my last church, and ultimately it led to the perception among my co-workers that I was not in the office enough, and therefore I was not visibly working enough. It takes incredible trust to allow somebody to work unsupervised. My church lost that trust, and I lost my job.
Dan I am really sorry that happened to you. I think that is great that you tried to get outside the church bubble but I know that is not easy. I have been trying to do that more with my church by easing them into it. This is not easy as I think many of those same questions can arise of we don’t see you working? What is the church people need to contact you? What if someone comes to the church and wants to talk to you? I think you hit the nail on the head as it is a trust issue and accepting that we are not just here for the “church people” but we are here for those outside the church as well.
preach it!
Hands down pastors work in the office WAY too much!! I know different personalities handle public environments for work differently, but I think you are right! With mobility these days we are set up to make a bigger impact in the communities we live in. As I write this I am sitting in our local Starbucks where I have had more conversations with people that don’t believe the same things I do than any day in the office…
With that said, the church is probably the one organization where there is HIGH TRUST LOW ACCOUNTABILITY…therefore people abuse the trust and don’t get the stuff done they need to do…
So prove to the people above you that you not being in the office doesn’t equal you not getting your work done and get out into the community!!
in a perfect world where everyone “did all unto the Lord” and worked there hardest…great idea. unfortunately, we do not live in a perfect world, and there exist slackers that need someone to parent them through the work week…sad, bud true.
then maybe those people shouldn’t be working there in the first place. if all you’re doing is parenting your staff then maybe daycare might be a better line of work.
Agreed.
If you can’t trust the people in little things, why would you want them involved in the church business?
They weren’t being parented, they were being enabled to continue in their slothfulness.
Offbox now
Yea. I’d fire them all and hire people who really work…
and i think that because of this it has ruined the freedom. unfortunate that a couple ruin it for all.
Amen!
I think churches can get too busy doing the business of being a church and forgetting what it means to be a Church (note the capitals there!)
“We need to schedule this in”, “We need to meet with so and so to discuss how the building can be used” or (one that can wind me up when it produces no action) “We’re meeting with all the local churches to discuss…..”
I also think that people working within a church can lose sight of what the workplace is like, and what reality is. Being encased within a spiritual bubble where people get along (most of the time), where a suggestion of prayer or worship is encouraged not derided and where evangelism is something that is part of the next sermon series to encourage the members.
Now please don’t get me wrong – I’m not saying that churches are all like that, nor am I saying that my church is that way (although it does feel it some of the time, however I do know that the leadership and the church do get involved in meeting people and getting out there)
I do know churches that are insular and isolated from the world, where the leadership are walled off from reality and where the realities of a “New Testament Church” are buried under used coffee grounds and nice biscuits.
This is a great idea. My last church position was as a graphic and video designer. I literally spent 10 hours in meetings a week (I was part time mind you) as plans were made on how to get into the community more, or how to develop people. If I had the time from those meetings, I would have had time to meet with people, and train students who wanted to be a part of the design team. I finally resigned, being pretty much fed up with doing nothing but meetings and staring at a computer screen.
one thing I wish I did when I still worked at a church was to work at the local starbucks or other coffee shop for a few hours a week. amazing how many conversations your local baristas get in on. they know something about everyone that walks in those doors every day.
was just thinking the exact same thing. The staff at my church often spend time working at starbucks. I know this from tweets and such. Are they so buried in their laptops and headphones that they are not open to passers by? That would be the ?, I guess. Love the idea.
This could be the beginning of a revolution… or something. Flat.Out.Awesome.
Maybe we’re working way too much inside the church when we’re supposed to BE the church.
great post. When I was a youth pastor I would set certain days usually friday to work on my message and go to the same starbucks as much as possible to work on my sermon. Not just because they have THE best coffee, but I really tried to build relationships with the workers there and try support them to in their community endeavors too. Many a great conversations happened in a cool sbux york pa. Catch the sensation.
I agree and I think often, we as church workers (me included), spend a lot of time (maybe too much) reading books, attending conferences and hearing from others on how we should be serving … instead of listening to God, getting out there where’s He’s sent us and offering Him to others.
100% agree!!
I’m a pastor on staff at a large church. I’m required to work 30 hours of office hours a week, and get my additional 20 on the weekends. I’ve been forced to take vacation days to serve in my community. Working in local schools, serving at a food bank, etc…
It’s sad to me that many think office work=productivity.
I’ll keep fighting the system, and praying for a change!
LOVE it. Perfect. I totally agree.
Dude, this could apply to pretty much any office job these days. I’m all over it!
I wonderful idea, and one that should be expected. But if your in an older church, be prepared to lose your job. I’m a Youth Pastor, and I know the church sees the staff as ministers to them. Meaning we are expected to be at their beck and call. I have people call me up to look up addresses for people. (It’s called the phone book) When we are not here, the get grumpy. They want us out in the community, but they want it after office hours.
Granted I know churches where you’re expected to get out there. I’d love to go to EVERY event a student is in, but I’d never see my family that way. If I could not have to be in the office Monday through Thursday, I could go to them all, since I would see my family some during the day.
The church has to break tradition of ‘pastor time hording’ and let them get out and build relationships.
BINGO. I am in the same type of predicament. What will work and be accepted in a lot of recent church plants, Gen X heavy churches will be viewed as outright sin in other churches.
At least for the interim I’m trying to dedicate my time to equipping people to be out in the community during those work hours when I can’t be.
We intentionally built out our church space (in a leased facility) to have a small office area with work stations. We have 5 staff positions plus a couple interns and we each do in the neighborhood of 80% of our “office work” from offsite locations (coffee houses, etc.).
We saw it as a vision/ministry issue of being in our community, connecting to those who aren’t in our church, etc. and we saw it as a stewardship issue – using our facility and dollars for ministry, vs. office space and all the costs that go with that.
We love it and wouldn’t change a thing. And we’ve got a staff that works hard, gets a lot done, and are having significant conversations with people throughout our community.
I’m with you…
And I find I’m far more creative and productive when I’m out of the office. I can accomplish a whole lot more.
Need to get out more often than I do! It’s amazing how my time gets sucked away here in the office…
And I need to encourage my staff to do so too…
Absolutely agree! Becoming a church planter last July forced me out of my office and it’s been incredible to see the results. I do a lot of work from coffee shops and other local restaurants and parks when the weather is nice. The stories are endless at this point of coffee baristas and others who’ve come to worship as a result (and if this doesn’t inspire the church admins, we’ve even had some people give money to the church just because they overheard our conversations and wanted to be part of it in some way!). As time goes on though, it seems more and more difficult to escape the administrative tasks and ditch the office, but it’s so important. Now I schedule the time and still aim for half my work week in a place other than my uninspiring storage closet with a printer, also known as my office.
anyone read “4 HR Work Week” by Tim Ferris? He talks about tactics to sell this kind of an idea to a skeptical boss (his motive is to get a ‘work from home’ status so he can travel… but it can easily be applied here)
He suggests presenting it as though you’re trying it out for a week, see how it goes, and if they don’t like it, go right back. Then, during the trial week, you make a point to be more productive than you’ve EVER been. The boss loves the idea, you now have the freedom you need to fulfill the vision of “Pastor” you feel called to.
As stated by many here, obviously, we need to be 100% accountable for our time. God’s watching
I remember at my first f/t ministry position my pastor made me paranoid about how many hours a week my vehicle was parked in front of the offices so everyone would know I was working. Unfortunately, I’ve carried that with me to other churches, although, I’m working hard to force myself to get out from behind my desk more. I think it’s a great idea. I would love to have a 25hr minimum at the office so I could be expected to get out more. How many staffers have lost their jobs because they weren’t in the office enough? Good call.
I’ve actually been toying with the idea of scheduling some of my smaller meetings in local coffee shops. I’ve done it before, and it worked well for the most part. Being outside the office also tends to stimulate more creativity…at least in me.
Right on. I never felt so isolated from the community around me as when I went into “full time” ministry. Felt like I was more just “full time” them “ministry”. Today, most Pastors/Worship Leaders/Admin in churches have very little real relationships or even many experiences outside their small church bubble. Because of this, I think we have a very myopic view of what life is really like outside of the “church” walls. If the church was to implement your hours, I think we’d see more, feel more and perhaps be more when it comes to really being living expressions of Jesus.
From my perspective, as a Tech/Production Director (and also IT guy for a staff of 20+) I feel the need to be “around” all the time. There is certainly work I could get done sitting in our local coffee shop, and probably in less time than I can at the office due to less interruptions. I just need permission to be less available sometimes.
It not only could work in my situation, it does! Our church is small and worships in a rented space. We have one small office. Because of that, most of our meetings (even with each other) take place outside of the building. Even our weekly staff meeting takes place in a local coffee shop. I’m part time @ 13 hours a week, but I spend no more than half of that time in the church building on any given week.
A quick story – I sat in a local coffee shop one day working offsite (I work in marketing, not in a church) when an interesting think happened…an older couple walked in with their 30 something daughter and started introducing her to the coffee shop staff. After they left I heard the manager sharing the back story. The daughter had been in the hospital for a few months undergoing chemo. Her parents had moved to town and were living in her apartment, each day they would stop at the coffee shop both heading to and returning from the hospital. When the parents brought her by she was on a day pass out of the hospital. The surprised employee then commented to the manager, “I guess that’s why the parents introduced us as their family.”
I teared up as I heard the story and realized there are over a dozen churches within 2 miles of the shop, including mine! I was convicted that sometimes I need to turn off Pandora and budget enough time to look for opportunities the Lord puts in front of me to love on people.
Great idea. I used to work mostly from the local shop while I preached in Georgia. I had so many wonderful conversations, prayers, and involvement w/others stem from my time there. I did “office work” and still engaged a lot with others.
Sadly, because my car was not seen at the church building, some wondered how many hours a week I was working — even though we had several people from the community show up.
I miss that ‘ol coffee shop!
I guess at my church this isn’t really an issue. I mean we have just consolidated our three pastor’s offices into one office to make more room for the kid’s ministry. Our senior pastor and associate both have full-time jobs outside the church and the Apostle is in meetings ALL DAY with church members and ministry leaders dealing with and resolving personal and spiritual issues. In fact, it’s hard just to get him on the phone sometimes because he’s so busy between doing regular administration duties and meeting with regular attenders, members, and ministry leaders. He’s also the only person on the payroll right now. Our Associate and Senior Pastors get a SMALL stipend but that’s it. Even our secretary is volunteer.
i don’t think it will work out. need you in at 9 bro. sorry about that.
but in all seriousness…if Pastors decided to do that…we might learn what shepherding is all about, the ‘great commission’ might actually come alive (beyond a comment card), the ‘fruit of spirit’ may have an authentic place to flesh itself out and we might just find something besides ‘the offering’ to pray about.
I’m assuming this post came from your tweet earlier today? Or vice-versa. I love the idea. Sometimes, I can get more work done out of the office too.
I think the key to something like this is having a regular place that you go, where you can get work done AND build a relationship with the owner or patrons that are there.
The other part is getting the permission from your boss-(wo)man too. I like the idea, I like the freedom and mobility aspect of it, and I like being able to be a ‘regular’ and connect with someone outside the church.
Leaving the office now…. Seriously!
My question to you is, “Why did the church hire you?” Did they hire you to meet with your team members, and stare at a computer screen, in order for you to create an environment that will effectively clear the path for the attendees of the services? Or did they hire you to connect with the people in the city through your everyday walk? Or did they hire you to do both? My next question is does it take your boss or your work to tell you to connect with the world around you and to pay you to do it? There are 168 hours in a week, and full time hours are around 40-50 hours a week. You sleep around 56 hours a week, what are you doing with the other 72 hours? God didn’t call me to connect with people around me only when I am at work or getting paid. He called me to do it all the time. He also placed me where I am because he gave me certain talents and wants me to use them to help grow his Kingdom. And that is why the Church hired me. Why did the church hire you?
Agree to a point.
Can one not “stare at a computer screen, in order for you to create an environment that will effectively clear the path for the attendees of the services?” outside the walls of a church office?
Is the point to be outside the walls to be outside the walls?
My point is, does the church who hired you find value in you working outside the walls of the office. For some the answer will be YES. For others the answer will be NO. As a vocation the church may not need you sitting at Starbucks working on this week’s contributions, or this week’s payroll. They need you sitting at your office answering phone calls, developing video transitions, or writing checks for payroll. The better question here is, do I like my job? Did God call me to this job? Do I trust the Church’s Senior management prayed about me and my job duties before they hired me? Should I ask the Church’s senior management if they could see value in me spending part of my time outside the walls of the church.
I think the moment we create church staff jobs that do not allow people to be outside the church walls we need to reevaluate the call itself.
I know plenty of accountants at churches that I have pulled out of their “roles” for a few hours a week and found them to be greater evangelists than they even knew existed.
“I think the moment we create church staff jobs that do not allow people to be outside the church walls we need to reevaluate the call itself.”
Can’t deny that. But us accountants can evanelize on our free time also. If their is vision behind working outside the walls I have no problem with it.
I’m not in ministry but worked at a church for several years. I think this is a great idea. Living in a small southern town though I know how many church members complain when the pastor isn’t in the office when they want him to be. Sad.
Oh Carlos..you are such a romantic.
From atop the food chain where I sit..I’d like to ask you a few questions from the Executive Pastor perch::
What about my huge book of policies and procedures.. each one written and enacted specifically for that one guy that wouldn’t “do right”?
And what about the vacation schedule that I meticulously hammered out to make sure that parity and fairness was available to everyone?
And how would I be able to micro-manage everyone and their projects.. if they were not sitting at their desks where I could pop in on them?
And we’ve paid all this tithe and offering monies for these beautiful temporary offices filled with cubicles to hopefully squelch any creative ideas they may have.
And don’t forget our main philosophy on church work.. if we build it THEY will come.
Why would we go out there with THEM?
When THEY should come to us!
Right!?!
OK OK..this is a brilliant idea!
It is sad that we have become so comfortably insulated or have justified our inwardness as “preparing others to do the ministry”.
Thank you for making me think about this..thank you for reminding me what it is all about.
I absolutely LOVE this idea!!!
Los, brother…
I can only assume you’re making references to 4HWW (as one commentator suggested).
Being an entrepreneur AND a pastor (intern at the moment), I fully understand the complexities of working within and beyond the walls of an office. As 4HWW does talk about, being a ‘mobile entrepreneur’ [in any case, doing your work outside of your dedicated office] requires a lot of self discipline, and as another commentator said, trust.
In my situation, I am a full-time intern at one of the fastest growing churches in America… most of our staff have cubicles for offices… and we can hardly keep up with our growth. I think when it all comes down to it… the role of a pastor is two-fold: feed the flock, and grow the flock. You can’t do either 100% effectively if you keep yourself constrained in your office. But like the previous commentator said, there ARE more hours in a day than when we are ‘paid’ to work… and when it comes to community involvement and charitable works, we need not rely on our ‘salary’ to support such endeavors.
I love the thought-provoking discussion man; keep it up!
I spend a lot of time in Starbucks, it is my “office” and I meet tons of people, dare I say more genuine people there then in the church.
I am a huge proponent of this idea. And when I talk to ministers they usually tell me they wish they could but the church will not let them. Its amazing that ministers are treated like middle schoolers checking in for school and not allowed to leave.
What an opportunity to be out in the public, meeting with people, meeting new people, and being open for others to stop in and hang out.
I do also wonder if that is the exact reason why ministers would rather work in an office, they can lock themselves away until Sunday.
I actually requested that I be allowed to work some hours outside of the church office for this very reason and I was denied my request. Kind of bummed by it – but respecting leadership nevertheless…
The problem is when people consider pastoring a “job”… it needs to be a full-time paid position because it requires so much time, but when its viewed as your calling rather than you job, the hours you put in don’t really matter… some weeks may be 35… some weeks may be 60+.
I agree that “office time” is necessary for counseling sessions and the such, but to expect a man to spend 40-50 hours in an office (not including Sunday services) and then expect him to give 15-20 hours in the community is way too hard on his family. The pastor’s family needs to be in order before he can lead a church.
I am part-time and am at the church building about 20 hours and try to attend all the plays, football games, concerts, and other things that I can… We also have our staff meetings at a restaurant every week and use that time as an opportunity to meet some people we wouldn’t normally meet. A lot of breakfasts and lunches make up my week… if I were expected (or expected myself) to do all of that AND spend 40 hours in the office plus all day Sunday and Wednesday night for Youth Group, I would never see my family.
One of the greatest things about my recent transition from church ministry to community based outreach ministry is that I no longer have an office. It’s awesome!
I think most staff members would spend all day at a Starbucks using their iPhones to tweet about the latest church activities.
Great discussion. I’ve seen megachurch pastors hold full time office hours and grow great churches. I’ve also seen churches that are going nowhere have pastors spending all their time in the community with no reflection of church growth or health. The best paradigm is that some pastors may need to hold more office hours and others need to be out in the community. Your responsibility at the church should dictate how much you spend doing one or the other. There is no one size fits all. But a new paradigm is necessary, and the discussion is full swing here. Great post Los!
You are exactly right!  The corporate worship of the true church has morphed into a worship of a corporate building. The buildings that we longed for when we were holding services in our homes and eventually rented space at schools have become our prison used by the enemy to keep us too busy for God’s work.  We look to the shelter of our offices for the injection of zeal that was lost obtaining what saps our courage and shields us from contact with the very souls we pray for. Remember when the quest was more about winning souls for Christ and less about bills, permits, zoning, and parking issues? The fact of the matter is, God picked you! Your heart was consumed by His will and you need to “clean house”!  Simplify your schedule, your programs, your staff- simplify the way you do chuch.  At this time the saying,”keep the main thing, the main thing” comes to mind! The passion of your life doesn’t reside in the four walls of your office but at the corner coffee shop, local schools, businesses, and markets. The church and love of Christ was spread in the day to day and not in the temple.  Get out of the comfort of that cush leather chair that has  become your quicksand and get back to what we were called to do.  Get back to what we love to do. Step back into your true anointing… Â
AGREE! This past week I was out at a local coffee shop (where I tend to try to get reading or computer work done) and I was reading some books for my schooling and was asked about one of the books that I had in front of me. The lady sat down and began to ask me about the book, and because it was a book on interpreting the Bible, she asked if I attended a church anywhere. I preceded to tell her about being the worship leader for my church and she told me about how she is a college student (new to the area) and has been looking for a body to belong to. This is an example in which I had absolutely no effort into starting the conversation, but it certainly opened my eyes to how many people can be reached if we just spend some time outside of our homes/offices.
Don’t want to rock the boat too hard here – but if you can spend 40 hrs in your office I think you’ve lost touch with the world – who on earth spends ALL that time in their office – honestly, wasn’t this Blog entry redundant? Who spends ALL their time isolated from the people they are supposed to be “working for”?
Ouch! Sore spot here. At our last church (and maybe our ‘last’) it wouldn’t work because board members (and ‘bored’ members) believe that pastors need to spend 40 hours in the office the same way they do on their own jobs.
THEN you’re supposed to attend every event, be in a small group, be in the community, etc. Oh yeah, and if you can manage it, you can have some family time. Better yet, drag the family along to those things and stick your kids in a room with some high schoolers who’ll play a Veggie Tales movie while you participate in “family life.”
No, I’m not bitter. Nor am I exaggerating.
Case in point, the time my DH was criticized for not being in the office when the other pastoral staff was gone. They were all on a 2 week ‘missions’ trip (which became a month for some). Out of that month, he literally took one day off. He preached every Sunday, was in the office every office day (including his Friday days off) with one exception. He took the time (on a Friday) to attend a leadership conference with another church member. He checked in by phone 3 times over the course of the day and was 15 minutes away if he was needed. An elder called the office that day looking for him. He got a nastygram email later criticizing him for not being in the office even though he’d also been told he needed to be attending conferences. That started a big uproar about ‘not working hard enough.’ Seriously? How much harder can one person work?
With some churches, you can’t win. But you’ll lose more quicker if your tail isn’t in your chair when someone expects it to be.
I would love to be part of a church that is forward thinking enough to unlock the shackles on the staff.
I used to be a staff pastor at a pretty large church. I was required to keep traditional office hours, but I was also given the freedom to get out if I HAD to. I always felt this pressure to be in the office.
Now that I’m a lead pastor, my office is wherever I am. I work from the local coffee shop, Borders, the Library, the mall etc. With all of the technology we’ve been blessed with, I personally see no need to stay locked away all day. I prefer to be out and about with the people.
I prefer it too.
I imagine your “officing” situation probably has quite a bit to do with what being “on staff” means at your church. For us, as staff person is a follower of Jesus, who’s paid profession is to lead/administer. Ephesians 4:12–we are equipping our people to do the ministry. I’m then called as an individual to share the gospel and love on people as part of my personal walk with Christ. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve encouraged our staff to spend at least one day a month off-site working somewhere, and if they choose to spend a lot more time, I’m cool with it. I just don’t believe we are paid to do ministry, we are paid to administer.
I can see what you are saying J and I think that is great if you are encouraging your staff to spend more time away if they choose to. I totally agree with what you are saying as I am in a church staff position that our role is to lead/administer and equip people to do the ministry. This is important so the congregation doesn’t get the mindset that the staff was hired to “do” all the ministry. However something harmful can also happen if we don’t get out of that church bubble. Because soon over time we realize we have lost touch with what is going on outside of the church world. All of our time begins to be filled up with sitting in our office, leading meetings for church people, going to church programs and other church functions etc…Then we lose touch with what is going on outside of our walls. This gives the persona if we are not careful that we are just here for the “church people” and I don’t think that is what anyone would want to say but our actions can speak louder than words. If we are telling our congregation to get out and love their neighbors how are we doing that? If we are in the office every day from 9-5 and then we have 3-4 nights a week or more that we are spending with more church people when are we loving our neighbors? Because obviously we need some family time as well although this is neglected many times in the life of the church staff. When are we reaching into our community?
Would never work in our situation. Who would be around to change the lightbulbs? Spray the weeds growing in the parking lot? Move tables and chairs for some women’s event? Clean the gym? I mean come on – a pastors job is to please the people and you please the people by being in the OFFICE. I mean, I’m a professional! I’ve worked hard to have an office of my own… oh, wait… I’ve worked hard to have an office I have to share with the children’s pastor! I LOVE the OFFICE (we are talking about the TV show, right?)!
Because I like to work in the office. I get the most done here…and it serves the “community” well.
Trapped is your state of mind. No one traps you but yourself.
I like this idea — I could see doing some computer work (video editing, graphics, etc) at the starbucks in my neighborhood, and actually being more productive, as well as building relationships with people that live near me, or at the very least, being a part of the community I live in, rather than driving 20 minutes to be in my office with no windows and no interaction.
The other plus I see is that I can protect my time better — I won’t have the rest of the staff knocking on my door every 5 minutes so I can make a video or graphic for them — we have forms and deadlines for that stuff that are easy to follow.
None of the people I do ministry with or am charged with equipping to do ministry are in the office during the week anyway, so no missing out there.
I would like to make a quick connection b/w this post and the previous post. Here we are talking about we don’t minister outside the walls b/c the of a trust issue. Yesterday as I read, “What is the hardest thing you’ve ever been through?” many stories were people that have been burnt by the church. Just how jacked up has the church become?
I agree that some pastors need to spend more time in the office and some need to spend more time in the community. We must get the job done, it’s what we’re called to do. However, the church also must allow us to get the job done. This is a struggle that many of us face. I would love to hear how some of us are getting the job done in spite of how jacked up churches can be.
P.S- I hope I don’t sound bitter. I love the Body of Christ, just upset that in a lot of cases it doesn’t look like Jesus.
“Work” as in doing office work outside of the office, or “work” as in working a separate job?
The challenge is creating the metrics for accountability. One has to define what those are & then how they can be applied/made accountable in the field. Once that is structured then it can open the doors for the concepts of Christian field work.
The modern mobile technologies that we have at our disposal can go a long way towards utilizing tracking tools for ones field work. The challenges are creating a system that satisfies the two disparate worlds of work place perceptions of ‘observable labor’ & ‘in the field – labor’.
I’ve worked in a few church/full time ministry settings. I’ve pastored, and I’ve been the ADMIN. yay for admins! Right now I’m on a team where ALL of us, except our lead pastor, are volunteers! yea, we all work (secular, career, whatever) jobs and then do ministry, in Detroit. So, um, we don’t have office hours, but we do have responsibility.
I don’t know how to correct some of these situations written about above, but some of them sound super depressing!
Getting paid to do ministry is nice, but the trade off sometimes is ugly. Just read all the comments above, haha! Just because you’re paid doesn’t mean you’re making a difference. It’s easier to keep people as your perspective when no one ‘owns’ you or a paycheck isn’t the only thing that motivates you. On the other hand, i’m sure there are situations where our pastor would like us to get more done.
Btw, since we have no permanent space, we’ve had to rely on public venues for our offices, and we rent a local (popular) bar/bowling alley/club for Sunday mornings. this forces us to be in the community. We take advantage of every possible place (that has free wifi) and technology that we can to stay efficient. Not to mention in Detroit, people don’t want regular church, they want hope. ah, there’s so much to say.
Let’s reconsider why we’re in ministry and ask God for help with this!! The church has to be the Church. Good post, good challenge!
Carlos you have touched a point that has made pastors stop and think through the way they do ministry. That is fantastic. This is the kind of dialog you find on discussion boards of master level classes at a university. Thanks for starting the dialog!
After reading some other responses, here are some more thoughts. Often churches that are reaching people with the Gospel message in mass and out in the public evangelizing all the time are poor makers of disciples. Not always, but often. Other churches that are good at making discipleship slowly slip into a us four and no more mentality. Both types are unhealthy churches. It’s tough to be balanced. Maybe understanding seasons and rhythms of ministry is key here.
But it is a state of mind. We are trapped by what we allow to trap us, except for the poor individual who’s leader does not set people be free to minister in the best and most comfortable way they can. I have responsibilities that require me to be in the office more than other pastors. i enjoy being in the office and getting things done. It gels with my personality and my position. But I would worry if the youth pastor, kids pastor, outreach pastor, etc were in the office as much as me. I am trying to help make mature disciples out of the people they are reaching. We work together as a team.
It saddens my heart to hear about people losing their jobs for being out in the world reaching people. But to those who this has happened to, don’t be bitter, learn from it and find a place that supports you for who you are. Your leader was wrong and ill informed about different leadership styles and personalities.
Even though my responsibilities, not my supervising pastor, that requires me to be in the office. Nevertheless, I have been challenged to make the most of my time outside the office.
We must never forget that the Gospel is meant to cut people to the heart, lead them to repent, and save them from their sins. The church is a place to nurture that change. For those who are all Gospel based, find a way to be out more in the community. For those who are church minded find better ways to make disciples. So if you find yourself Gospel minded in a church that is church minded it is probably best for you to allow God to lead you to another ministry, and vise versa. Mindsets, teamwork, and alignment are key here!
I thought the main role of the pastor was to leave the 99 and go and find the 1?
I love the idea of being out in the community; it is great way to meet the folks that probably need Jesus. I couldn’t write sermon in Starbuck’s but I could be there.
I love what Dave L. said – if we are evangelists, then we’ll be poor pastors (disciple makers) hey – maybe we need more that one person?
Once we get the pastor doing his job, then we can work on the prophets, apostles, evangelists and teachers.
I work as an Exec Asst so I feel like the time I spend here doing admin stuff helps the Pastors stay out there. My connection time is largely with hurting folks who call in… trying to make each contact the best possible it can be so that I create a welcoming environment.
I’ve never been a fish-catcher… more of a fish-cleaner upper… I’ve always been the person who once the fish are caught… help them feel welcome, loved, help disciple them, etc. My husband is a fish catcher though as are the Pastors I work for
I wonder if trash men and factory workers, maybe waiters at applebees, sit around and dream about how their job could be better if they were allowed to do it at a coffee shop?
Man we have it easy…
That makes so much sense its dumb. Also if pastors aren’t working in the office they are working in the coffee shop… try something else.
The church office often becomes a bubble that ultimately shields the staff from the exact people we’re trying to reach. Build a relationship in the community first, and then invite them to church.
I try to work from Starbucks when I get the chance. Lately though… I’ve just been holed up in my office… my lonely office… the one that I have all to myself. I wish my office was more accessible and not in a back hallway.
A major question church leaders have to ask themselves is do we want to be attractional (focused on drawing people here for an ‘experience’) or do we want to focus on being missional (the Great Commission)?
los…agree 100% AND at the same time we just leased some “office/ministry outpost space” in downtown Phoenix as part of our church plant (@daytwelve). the vision for the space is to have artists, university profs and/or local business people office WITH us. truly a space that itself provides an intersection of church and community.
dude, could not agree more! i recently decided to spend less hours in the church and started coaching pee wee football. great way to connect with people who i would otherwise never get to meet sitting behind my desk.
Los, thank so much for this post. I’ve finally decided that you are well worth my time, my read, and my energy.
I have to be honest, and since you’re about real, here it goes:
I’ve been caught in the trap of criticism towards other believers and judgmentalism towards non-believers for far too long. After reading more of your thoughts, I am deeply convicted by your passion to bring the church outside the walls and love on people.
I’ve been locked inside the church walls, the church culture, the church ghetto, whatever you want to call it for too long and this post really rocked my world.
How can I ever see lost souls come to Jesus if I’m always with believers or if I don’t have any compassion or empathy?
I’d love your prayers. Pray that I would see people and “have compassion on them”as Jesus did and not get stuck in MY head, MY thoughts, and MY issues.
Thanks again.
From a number crunchers standpoint, I’d expect to see some accountability.
Most of you have nailed it in that management needs to reconsider what ministry is all about, reaching, teaching, evangelism, etc. Yes, how can you be effective behind the desk all day? Sure, some ministers are gifted in administration. Others are better at connecting with the community.
Still, if you’re paying someone full-time or part-time, there’s got to be some way of defining objectives and measuring results. If you can’t measure it, you can’t manage it.
This may be an old post, but 2 things: pastors didn’t used to work in coffee shops, they worked in their homes. Also, the fact that you can get so much done in coffee shops tells me that you’re not using big heavy books. I appreciate interacting with the community, but I also question how much writing is to be able to accomplished apart from a library.