Worship Pastor vs Program Director/Producer
At Sandals Church I was the Worship Pastor.
I oversaw everything in the Sunday morning service.
At Buckhead Church I was the Program Director.
I oversaw everything in the Sunday morning service.
From the service programming director position I was in more of a producer role.
The PRO was I saw everything from the view of the attender.
The CON was I only saw the backs of their heads and not their faces.
From the worship pastor position I was in a more of a leadership role.
The PRO was I saw everyone’s faces.
The CON was I did not see the room from the view of the attender.
These are two schools of thoughts.
One is that the person in charge should be able to produce the service from off stage.
The other is the person in charge should be able to feel the service from on stage.
How does your church handle this role and what do you think is the better way to run the Sunday Service?
Producer or Pastor?
Los
RAIN IT DOWN
Producer Driven. Each person on stage should do their best to flow with the audience and week to week communicate what they are seeing with the Program Director/Producer. Lots of times Worship Leaders dont appreciate the input of those not on stage, so its better to eliminate that issue, by empowering those not seen.
ideally, collaboration between a behind the scenes and up front guy would make for the least amount of hiccups and ultimate trust on a leadership team. my $.02
Great thoughts on this Carlos. My church is small and we only have me, the worship leader.” I think there has to be both in either position. If your main responsibility is the worship pastor, I believe you need to take some time and see the service from the perspective of the attender. It’s a completely different feel from on the platform. And on the flip side, if your main responsibility is the producer, I think you need to get a feel for what it is to lead the people in worship (if your gifts allow you too). How are you going to know what to produce if you don’t know how the church responds. Not and cut and dry answer, but I don’t think there’s an option for one of the other, I think you have to have both in either position.
This might be a cop-out answer, but I think they are equally important. As the worship leader, I have total control of the songs that we sing because I can see the peoples faces & know what songs resonate w/ the congregation. Usually our producer chooses any visual elements that we might use, but I give my suggestions too. Thankfully, we work really well together:)
both are important roles….what’s most important is that they work together, respecting each other’s gifts and perspectives.
I wish that happened more often…
I do have hope, though.
We’re a new church…just launched in January. I’m essentially the Worship Pastor at River Church, but was the Program Director at West Ridge for several years until last year. Now that I’ve been on both sides of the “confidence monitor,” I’m building a team that allows for a rotation of two or three people capable of both roles to at least a reasonable degree. While I’m the one held ultimately responsible, the two or three of us will alternate to get a complete perspective.
This enables better discipleship, leadership development, collaboration, fearless feedback, etc.
I don’t think it’s an “OR” question.
Couple of reasons.
Your comments on perspective are very valid. It’s a different experience from the back of the room, than it is from the front.
First… there aren’t many creative types to enjoy the detail oriented work of being a producer.
Beyond that, at some size, the roll of a producer/stage manager/director becomes almost mandatory. You won’t be at your best as a worship leader if you’re also worrying about the fact that the volunteers who take the kids to children’s church after the children’s moments aren’t there yet.
Even in a relatively small church… someone who can manage the details of getting it all put together is probably a huge gift for both worship leader and pastor. They have enough to manage on Sunday.
And, I would also argue that this producer roll needs to be much more than just clerical. They should be on equal footing with the other worship leaders.
I don’t love the idea of producers. Production and consumption go hand in hand and I don’t think the focus should be on producing things for a congregation to consume.
Jordan,
I completely agree. The idea of producing a service for the church audience to consume sounds a bit too materialistic/consumer driven for me, as well. Production, seeing things from the audiences viewpoint, leadership based on who’s in front of people…is this what “church” is all about? I honestly didn’t know this was a debate. Interesting.
We delegate the producer position.
That’s delegation of task & authority.
I may be leading and seeing the faces. But the producer has been raised up and trained to make sure things are seen from the eyes of the attender too.
It really becomes a matter of trust and communication.
Los,
I agree with the fact that both roles need to be filled, and it’s hard for both roles to be filled by one person.
At our church, we have a ‘Worship Director/Producer’ who is the only paid-person in the worship ministry. However, he does not sing. He produces the music, pastors the volunteers, and ultimately decides the mood/setting of the worship service.
With three campuses and five worship teams, we have a ‘worship leader’ on each team, and their job is to play the traditional role of leading worship… and then they report to the director before/during/after the service.
Lemme ask YOU this: Do you think one role deserves the “in charge” position more than the other? Or, rather than determining one person “in charge,” how can we create a co-existence? Should one position be paid, where the other relies on volunteers?
~Samuel John
I’m actually looking to hire this role right now and I keep getting torn between the two. I’m thinking it’s more of an ‘And/Both’ instead one or the other. Carlos, What would be one thing you’d change/add to this role? Feel free to Let me know if you have any recommendations for this role as well
I think the perfect position would be one where the producer is also a worship leader.
Maybe leads worship once a month.
This way he or she gets both views and while the majority of his or her time is focused on producing, they are not detached from seeing the peoples faces.
But that is one mans tiny opinion.
That’s what I do! We’re in a big transition at our church right now so I’m leading/support leading more than I will be going forward but…I’m out in the producer role 1-2 times a month and singing/leading the other times.
I’m really loving the dual role because I meet with our other worship leaders and get their feedback in our planning meetings, as well as having my own experience. Then I create the service with all the artistic elements and hand them off to volunteer coordinators for Sundays. I get their feedback on a weekly basis and then I also have my experience in that role as well!
Best of both worlds if you ask me!
I feel that. Do you think there are great worship/directors who are cool with leading 1x a month? If so, can I hire u? Haha…I’m serious
At my old church, we had about 4-6 worship leaders. We were volunteer led at the time–no worship pastor on staff. We worked with the programming director on the set list along with the other elements of the service. And it worked GREAT! I don’t believe we ever had someone say they weren’t being used enough or too much. Since we were volunteers, we couldn’t take on the entire role by ourselves. We had a few producers as well and would rotate each week. To do that, everyone needs to be on the same page with expectations and communicate during the week–not just at rehearsal or at the service. We all knew what the quality and spiritual standards were. And there was no infighting. Loved that time in our church.
I believe that if you are called to lead worship, you are on the platform for the congregation. I attend a church where all in charge of worship are on the platform. No one is telling them the view from the congregation. If we don’t sing loud enough to please the worship leader, we get yelled at & rebuked. The reason we don’t sing is because we very often don’t know the songs they are singing but the people on the platform seem to be having a wonderful worship time
Los,
I have served within the production manager role and I always sought the role of the worship leader. It was really strange enjoying what I was doing but wanting to experience the service from the leadership role of the worship leader. There is something about seeing the faces of those in service that connects you with the congregation.
I’m not sure if there is a real solution to this other than finding the place in ministry that best fits you personally. I believe there is someone to fill both roles within the ministry while feeling completely content in their area of focus. It’s just finding this person and giving them a platform to run with their gifts.
In our situation here, the answer is yes, and yes.
I get the rare opportunity to view from all sides. I guess I would be considered a Program Director in most other churches. Here they call me the worship elder. I oversee all things in the Sunday services. I also participate in some of the worship leading. However, our worship leader has almost as much input into what happens as I do. She picks the setlist, but I have to direct how the other parts of the ministry flow with that as well as with the pastor’s sermon series. This way the ones actually connecting and ministering (like the sr pastor) are the ones who get direction as to what is the best message (in her case the songs). Yet on the programming side, I get to fine tune how the different parts of our creative team flow together. It really works well for us.
no comment
ahhahahhahahaha
My $.02, it should be a calibration of ideas on the creative end b/c you are right that those on stage cannot always get the feel of the audience, but there needs to be a single person in charge of the over all answers of yes or no, granted beyond that the lead pastor has total veto power. I think it should be the worship leader due to the fact the the person leading the worship has to have a connection to the songs being lead, where as the producer can produce even if he or she is not “in to” a certain song or set. The worship leader should then lead by example and be open to all ideas, good and bad, thus empowering those “behind the scenes”. But I’m a firm believer in leadership from a single source in all departments, modeling the church staff who has single leadership under the pastor. (BTW full discloser, I’m a worship pastor)
a little off-topic, but i think anyone in the ‘producer’ or ‘worship leader’ role should also simply attend the service as an attender every once-in-a-while. even when producing and ‘seeing’ from the producer perspective, you still don’t EXPERIENCE the service from the crowd point of view. it’s really helpful to every once in a while be in the service without running or leading anything, but simply from the perspective of “does this engage ME?” …
That’s a great idea. I help run lighting, and yesterday I took the day off and didn’t work on any of the volunteer teams. It helps me see how I can be better at parking cars and it helps me to see how things look in the audience. If I’ve already been up in the lighting booth that day, I won’t be viewing the lighting the same as if I walk into the auditorium and sit up front, and when I volunteer I park in a different parking lot.
My church has a worship producer, but he does get up on stage around once a month or so. I actually love those Sundays the best because he brings his dj board and keyboard and totally rocks the house.
I just started helping out the lighting team a couple of months ago, and it’s changed the way I see the service. I see how much work it takes to get the polished service, and I appreciate it so much more. I’ve talked with a friend on the worship team, so I have a feel for how the lighting can affect them, like when it’s so dim they can’t read their music.
One of my passions is theatre, and I’ve discovered that it’s incredibly helpful to learn about all the different aspects about it, even though my first love is acting. I’ve directed, built sets, made costumes, run lights, found props, advertised, and sold tickets. I like being well-rounded, and it makes me appreciate so much more the hard work that everyone does behind the scenes.
We’re extremely pastor driven and have often been labeled as the church that’s performance driven. I sit at FOH and observe very little participation. Needless to say, it would do our worship pastor a lot of good to come and experience it from the seats.
Great topic.
Our church of 275 doesn’t have a program director. Up until last Sunday we had one worship leader who led in every service, but now that we’ve added a second worship service on Sunday morning I also lead worship. The benefit that I have (I guess) is that I don’t sing in the first service, and can sit back and observe/participate with the congregation. Then, when I lead worship in the second service, I can make adjustments to the songs, timing, etc. for that service.
I’m curious then….does the answer of many here being that production is the way to go put more emphasis on just that – production rather than worship? While I realize that production absolutely aids in the atmosphere of worship, True worship certainly takes places without good production. However, good prodcution does not necessarily elicit true worship….
I think that both are necessary. I am a worship leader, and I love to be up front leading the congregation! However, just as important as me leading up front is my call to apprentice other worship leaders! If we each apprenticed/discipled one other worship leader who could eventually lead worship on the weekend once a month or so, we (as worship leaders) could get into the crowd once a month and experience the service from that point of view.
2 birds. 1 stone.
From past experience, we had both. And there was an ENORMOUS amount of trust between the two. I think the producer can’t be solely quality control and timekeeper. There needs to be an artist in that role because you need to see the whole thing work together. The worship pastor needs to be free from wondering if the light cues are going right or what the house mix sounds like so they can engage with congregation. He/she will have to trust the producer is on it. And before all of this comes to pass, the two must be unified on vision, communicate frequently and be flexible. If the worship pastor is getting a sense of a direction change, the producer needs to be willing to work with it unless its just not possible. And if the producer is seeing/hearing something that doesn’t fit, the worship pastor must be open to that conversation. Essentially both want the same thing in the end, but there are perspectives to be had on each side.
visualize Africa or jungle southeast Asia..or house church China
I’m having a hard time getting over the use of the words “produce” and “stage.” The worship service is not a performance for an audience, which tends to be the picture brought to mind by these words.
All things should be done decently and in order (1 Cor 14:40). In addition to a liturgy (order of worship) that is followed, we should make sure that things are set up properly before the congregation fills up the nave and the Call to Worship is given. Make sure the chairs (if not pews) are arranged as we want, and clean, the lights work, the elements for the Lord’s Supper are in place, the bulletins are ready, that people are in place to fulfill various roles: greeters, ushers, offering ushers, announcements, etc. In a larger church building, we need to make sure the mics and sound system works, and that recording equipment works properly if services / sermons are recorded.
I like the idea of a producer-driven worship experience. This is probably because I am a Technical Director. My thoughts are very biased to the sound and production side of things.
The only reason that I prefer a producer-led worship experience is that a Worship Leader can’t deal with things that go on off the stage. If a computer goes down, he/she can’t help with that or make sure it gets taken care of. For that matter, the worship leader can’t do anything about problems on stage either. Once the service starts, all that they can really do is lead.
We all know that things go wrong during worship sometimes… its good for the person in charge to be able to put out fires during a service. While you are leading worship you are pretty much useless to a technical staff.
I like the idea of a Holy Spirit produced service. I believe that those running he service should come prepared for excellence, but yield to that which is the Holy Spirit is leading. I love it when the pastor stops the sermon early to allow God to minister through body ministry (small groupings), prophecy and healing.
It is wonderful experience when God uses some of the would be spectators to bring a word, a Scripture or a song.
At my church we use a combination of Worship Leaders and Coordinators (probably a good synonym for Producer.) We work together to make sure all the Sunday Morning Service elements are taken care of and gain perspective from both positions. Communication between the two is what makes this work best.
I have been in a position where I was both producer and worship leader for large church services. We had a volunteer who worked with the tech crew to make sure each piece went off well. I am currently in the worship leader role as a volunteer.
Personally, I love to lead worship. I care very little about all the details when I stand in front of everyone and feel the responsibility for so many people…both the volunteers and the congregation.
Having someone who deals with the details so I am free to lead worship…would be awesome.
why not both… and have them rotate…
I didn’t even know such a thing as a “church producer” till now…
Davo, neither has the church known such a thing for 20 centuries. I think there is a dangerous shift from the Scripture-regulated principles of worshipping God to an audience experience-centered adoption of production values developed for rock concerts into many churches — including some that teach otherwise sound doctrine, the Gospel of God’s Grace and the whole council of God; and others that I am hesitant to call the church.
While I completely respect your desire to keep church services pure and free from what some deem as “false fire,” I would argue that the position of “producer” is not necessarily a new one, but simply putting a name to what someone has done for every church service that has ever taken place.
Someone has always had to figure out who would be at the building to open the doors, how the service would be structured, who would lead in praise, who would share the message, who would collect the offering, etc. All of these are necessary in order to “produce” a worship service that reflects the heart-cry of its congregation to a God who is glorified through the work.
Look at the instructions God gave to Moses about the worship services around the mountain, or at the tent of meeting. Wasn’t Moses doing exactly what we are talking about?
As far as the “rock concert” aspect, our God is the ultimate creator and deserves the best of our talents, whether they be technical, musical, or artistic. While there is a small sect of pharisees in it for their own glory, I truly believe the modern praise & worship movement comes from a generation trying their hardest to give God their best, their first-fruits.
The way that we do it at our church is that we have two teams rotating during the month. That allows the leaders to both observe and lead form the stage and also from the view of the congregation.
If a church decides to have technology be an important part of their strategy. I believe that the Producer role is extremely important. Here are some of my reasons.
1. Someone needs to bridge the gap between production and technology.
2. Everyone involved in the service from band, communicators, technical folks are ALL leading people in worship. They need a leader.
3. The most important person in the room are the attendees – someone needs to be paying attention to those people in order to make sure the service flows with them.
4. Worship Leaders need Producers who let them be led by the spirit. The Producer will follow and will help the technical folks go with them.
5. Producers need Worship Leaders who will listen to them because they sense the direction of the audience.
When Worship Leaders and Producers are in sync – it’s a beautiful thing.
great reply