Shoulda Closed That Window…
So…………..
Say you are at a church……………
And say you are in the pastors office……………..
And say you are tuning your guitar…………..
And say his laptop wakes up from “SLEEP MODE”…………
And say you see something on his screen that you WISH YOU WOULD HAVE NEVER SEEN…………..
What would you do?
AND NOT THE ONLINE PERFECT PERSON YOU THINK YOU ARE…
You. What would you do?
Los
[FYI this has not happened to me yet DID happen to a worship leading friend of mine last month...]
RAIN IT DOWN
i recently learned a thing i wish i could unlearn.
it sucks.
Probably say, “it’s research for a sermon,” when that doesn’t fly i’d go with “guess now’d be a good time for confession.” Then clear my history.
Depends on what it is you see there. If it’s illegal stuff, call the cops. If it’s porn or something similar…I’d probably pull the guy aside privately and tell him what came on the screen. It’s a time where you really need the Holy Spirit to lead you.
Tame the immediate reflex to panic.
Ignore the temptation to judge.
Find the opportunity to talk about it.
Then examine the implications of that behavior.
Wish I could say the real me would do this.. in spirit, yes. In actuality, I’d have a much tougher time.
I would call him in to the office and ask him about it.
Sin likes darkness. Bring it into the light! I would guess that after the initial embarrassment, the pastor would be relieved to not have to hide it anymore.
Well I guess it depends on what that was. A pic of his hairy butt, his bank account numbers, porn site, pic of his married girlfriend or naked pic of his wife.
A. offer some wax
B. take them down, if it’s a big church, I might be able to use them later. put it back in sleep mode, if it’s a small church, his account isn’t any better than mine.
C. let’s get authentic. gotta talk right?
D. see C
E. high five on the way out.
but i’m probably gonna warn him about leaving the pic up too.
I’d definitely ask him about it.
We are all humans. This will always happen. The bible is quite clear on what to do. Pray for him, then speak with him in private. If that doesn’t work, bring ore or two other brothers to speak with him. Finally, if he persists in his sin, speak with the elders of the church about his future with the church.
If the elders do not do the right thing, unfortunately it may be time to move on. At no time should you expose the situation or gossip.
Almost… When its anyone else in the congregation, these are the steps. When its an elder, you have to bring 2-3 people with you. 1 Tim 5. Also, for an elder/pastor, this must be taken in light of the 1 Tim 3 and Titus 1 qualifications of being “above reproach”. Sexual sins are serious business. Not saying this can’t be forgiven, but the other elders would need to be involved from the get go and accountability would need to be established.
Honestly…probably sit there and try to pretend to carry on a normal conversation. Find an excuse to get out. Then the second I got in the car I would freak out and call my husband.
After Ive had a few days to freak out and completely over think what to do I would end up at one of two conclusions…
A. If I were in a position that it was someone I had a close relationship with (ie. they were my direct leadership report) then I would talk to them personally.
B. If it was someone that I knew just causally but not super well then I would go to my direct leader/supervisor and then go from there.
I think Scott is onto something. Matthew 18:15-19 lays it out. Approach the pastor with what was seen on his computer. Don’t judge…just let grace happen. If he confesses, offer to hold him accountable with what is on his computer (and all wireless devices for that matter). If he balks, it is time for phase two, bring another pastor or leader (use discernment on this since you certainly do not want to spread rumors). If he does still does not repent and show fruit of that repentance, then it would be a matter for multiple leadership/or pastors. They should be sat down at that point…
I only approach it this way because I have been on the victim’s end of this fairly recently. It is not easy, but it is the right thing to do. If you start by not putting your pastor on a pedestal and pray for him constantly, that would be good.
Pastors are supposed to live a life that is above reproach. Yes, pastors are human and should be extended as much grace as any other…yet, they are held to a higher standard.
we had a computer donated to the youth ministry at a large church I was an intern at a few years back. I walked in to band rehearsal for the students. The youth pastor was on stage tuning and our “new” computer’s VERY INAPPROPRIATE screen saver had come on. I’m not sure how it was handled, but the guy who gave the computer is on staff now.
The “Super CHristian” in my head would confront the guy, then talk to the church leadership.
The real me would probably be a coward and ignore it. Maybe close it for him, or put a filter on his computer for him if he wasn’t in the room. You know…the passive aggressive approach.
The responses so far are leaving out a critical factor – any action to confront the pastor would need to involve at least one other person, preferably an elder of that church. If you ask the pastor about this alone, you are asking for serious trouble. Trust me. I know from personal experience.
Pray hard for him! Encourage him to step aside for a while to deal with every issue surrounding this. Chances are if it’s porn, its only a symptom and the root is something much deeper. Problem is, so many of us lack grace and mercy towards other christians (even worse with church leaders) in this area.
Mention it to them. Don’t let them continue to go down that path, but also don’t slander them. Discuss it only with them.
my real self would screw it up. hard. it would start innocently with coffee or something, and then i would blurt it out, things would get awkward, and nothing productive would come of it. my online self agrees with scott.
Since I wouldn’t know what to do, I would just report it to WikiLeaks and let them run with it.
I am just sinful enough to laugh out loud at that.
If it’s a dealbreaker, I’d confront him quietly and give him a chance to explain. You gotta confront. He counsels people. They’re vulnerable.
If it’s a picture of what he got you for Christmas, I’d just act surprised and tell him he shouldn’t have.
If it’s a picture of loswhit in workout gear, I’d give him the benefit of the doubt.
Pray Um, God, this is a new one on me, HELP!
I think it would depend on the relationship you have with said Pastor. It could get ugly real quick. If you don’t want to talk to him about it, then that is when you should talk to him. If you want to point it out to him and shove it in his face, then you shouldn’t be the one to bring it up to him.
I’m assuming we are talking about finding out that he is a closet Bieber fan??
If we’re talking something in the stumbling block area, I’d find someone I trust in the church who’s in leadership and ask them for advice. Especially if it was something inappropriate, I (as a woman) would need some outside counsel before saying anything to a male pastor. I don’t know exactly what I’d do, but I’m pretty sure I would feel way too guilty if I just pretended it didn’t happen.
While on staff at a church a while back, I was checking the church voice mail and there was an interesting message. The pastor accidentally butt dialed the church while hitting on a couple young girls. I asked him about it, his face turned red, and he denied any wrong-doing. It’s hard to press an issue like that when you could be jobless for doing so.
This one happened to me several years ago. Once I got over the initial knot in my stomach, I decided to not say anything. In retrospect, I probably should have confronted it, but it was someone I looked up to greatly and couldn’t pull the trigger to say anything. Just being gut level honest and not trying to give the “churchy” right answer here.
dead honest truth…. I’d probably tell about 10 of my core friends while i “processed” what I’d seen… gossip is a bitch. But, yeah, I’d probably go there. Cuz I suck like that.
Yes, I’d say this is the closest to the truth. I suck like that, too.
Los, you didn’t say it was something “sinful”, we are all just assuming it was something sexual. What if it was the pastor smoking a joint? Or something else that particularly embarrassing ( a “private” pic of him & his wife.) Not saying those are right or wrong, just saying there are other possibilities.
in all likelihood – probably mention it sheepishly a week later after it tortures me the whole time.
Probably nothing to be honest. I say nothing, because I worked for a pastor and he would get these nasty pop ups and invites that had nothing to do with him — I finally worked with his IT guy (A volunteer) to stop the pop up ads of “single ladies in the hood” kinda deal. I get emails daily telling me my singlenetworks mailbox is full — I don’t have an account with them it’s just spam — so..yeah, I’d probably ignore whatever it was, but again that depends on what it is your friend saw and how close of a relationship they have. I know me, if I tried to say anything I’d 1. mess it up 2. want to believe the best and let him lie. so.. there you go.
This is wayyyy too open ended, man, but I’ll try to answer.
The pastor’s not in the room in this scenario, so first thing is close the window. Put a blanket over the monitor. Turn it off. Something. Then, depending on what is is, maybe ask the pastor about it.
I’m coming at this from the angle of I’m a woman and I’m assuming this pastor is a man. As a woman, I don’t feel comfortable doing more than making mention of what I’ve seen, how it makes me feel, and seeing if the pastor has a reasonable explanation.
If it’s something just terrible (i.e. I can foresee no reasonable explanation), I think I’d just close the window, quietly leave, and tell an elder at the church. I am in no way qualified nor called upon to confront a man in a position of authority about his sin directly.
But whether qualified or not, I’m sure as hell gonna say something to somebody if it’s a matter potentially harmful to the congregation.
Just what I’d do.
Obviously since we are talking vaguely here the thing you wish you didn’t see could be any number of embarrassing or inappropriate things. But as the first thing that comes to mind is pornography let me just say this. I lost my ten year marriage in part to my husband’s porn addiction. Most of our married life he was serving in church in some capacity or another–some of that time as a pastor. Pornography addiction is rampant even in the church, and we as the church are not talking enough about it. We are not helping each other be honestly accountable. We are not providing a loving environment where people can come forward and be set free from this debilitating addiction. Pornography addiction is destroying lives and families. Having lived through it I know that it can destroy marriages, trust, self-esteem, bank accounts, reputations, and lives. I firmly believe that one way to combat pornography addiction among Christians is to form relationships that are non-judgmental but where their is permission to hold one another accountable. Relationships where you know that that person is going to ask if you are looking at anything you shouldn’t be this week. But, that when you admit that yes you have that they don’t condemn you but pray with you. People that you can call when you are sitting in front of the computer struggling with the temptation of pornography that you can call them and pray with them no matter what time it is. Just my 2 cents from the trenches of this silent epidemic.
Scott had it right. ANY else is hurting yourself or others. Had a deacon make a drunken ‘come on’ phone call to a female staffer…she’s iron-willed and cussed him out and let it slide…the predator soon had 3 others ‘on the hook’ and was going in for the ‘score’ when I caught him and after investigating iD’d him as a sexual predator. The elders, when told, asked if the vicitm wanted it announced so they would know how to address it with him; they would not let me confront him. He stayed on another 2 months until leaving in a huff over the elders inaction to addresss ‘his accusers.’ The staffer when confronted said, “I thought it was just me; he told me I was asking for it.” Let the light dispell all darkness…
Well, it’s very dependent on what was on the screen…there’s not necessarily anything wrong with him having a racy picture of his wife on his computer, although that would definitely qualify as something I would NOT wanna see. Lol. Were that the case, id probly tell the dude to make sure he got it locked better next time. Be it a matter of sin, I would probably just let em know that I’m there if they ever need help or to talk about anything and leave it at that.
If it is like information – You roll with it, pray about it. Ultimately – God is sovereign and makes no mistakes … His way is perfect (Ps 18.30)… sooooo IF we really believe that, you saw it for a reason – so pray for the situation/person/etc.
If it is something like yukky or inappropriate. Maybe the same response – pray pray pray your head off for your response, for the other person, then for me – I try and get in the word to see if I can find some guidance and stay humble too… remeembering we are all flawed and imperfect and in need of Grace.
I’ve so been there – in both cases. ugh. so difficult
Something similar happened. I found out my pastor was doing something he REALLY shouldn’t be doing. I have prayed and prayed for the past month, and I made my decision to leave the church and move on to another church
Pull the fire alarm
Pray? I wouldn’t have the time at the moment…Man…in the moment…my jaw would drop…and I would simply say…”man…that sucks. This is a bad day…for both of us.”
That would be my first reaction.
i’d say,
dude, i was in your office and you computer screen woke up and i saw something very questionable…what’s up?
it’s as simple as that.
actuly all 3 of our pasters have a policy for this in place becuse becuse they know they struggle in this aria so all have a blocking sysum in place & there wives have the password but if I did see something on there laptops I would do as the policy dictates I would confront them derectly in privet first, then if caught again or seeming unrepentent then one or both of the other pasters are to accompeny me to confront said pastor & then if that is unsusecsfull then they are brought before the congergation & then will be removed from there dutys no less then 6 months or intill they have met the critera of reibilitation to be set due to offence, & personal plan. we defintly try to have a plan of accontiblty for one & all & as a church of apoximently 40 people we can do that fairly easly.
I would slap him and say SNap out of it Worship Leader go get help bahah well metaphorically I would. Actually being a woman I would go to the leader and have him deal or tell the worship leader ok, now I am highly uncomfortable right now I wish I was a man right now. Actually that is something I would say bahhah. Then be like sir or if none by name say persons name than be like there is help xxxchurch go to leadership and or get leadership to talk to him. Cool Great mind bogglin thinkin to get the people not going but talking bhahaha.:)
I would look at it, very closely, enjoy it, fantasize about it……….then leave and think how terrible my pastor is
Don’t call Joe Paterno, that’s for sure…
Too soon?
I guess I’ll be the first one to say that I’d prolly judge the dude for the TYPE of porn popped up on the screen. I know, I need Jesus! But in my mind, there is a big difference between straight man/woman porn and…”deviant” porn like animals, gay porn, violent porn, etc. That, to me, would signify that this person is deeply entrenched in his addiction and needs some type of intervention.
YES, ALL PORN IS WRONG. There is no “good” porn–that’s not what I’m saying. Lust is lust, sin is sin AND DEATH. But at least you would have some sort of idea how to approach the subject. Being a person who uses humor in the toughest of situations, I’d probably crack some sort of joke about it to break the ice. Then I’d encourage him to talk to some other men in the church that deal with this same problem.
Lastly, I would pray for MYSELF, that I could forget what I had seen, and that I would resist the temptation to judge this person everytime I saw him.
Interesting question.
Our Senior Pastor had a no internet policy in our church offices. He and our church’s board have agreed that although it might not prevent temptations, it might throw a stumbling block in it’s way.
.
That being said, if something like this happened to me, though the Bible says what I should do, my gut reaction would be to close the laptop, and leave the office. I would then probably talk to someone in leadership that I trusted, stew about it for a few days, and would not trust what the Pastor from then on.
Great Los, now you’ve made me think
I would not use his keyboard.
When we first moved to MT that is what happened to James. It was the youth pastor.
J. went to him, told him what he knew, they went to the board together, the board asked him to get help, he stepped down instead. He moved. He’s doing well as far as we know from 2000 miles away. He and J are still good friends.
I am Catholic and worked in a retirement home for priests. This particular order had 5 priests awaiting cases for sex charges/paedophilia.
In church I saw these men, as so holy and pious, beyond reproach. But in real life, as they told me over and over, they arent special, they are men first, and priests second. The good ones said that , as well as the ‘bad” ones.
So to your question…if it was something illegal on the laptop, I would just call the cops as I would on any man, worship leader or not.
If it was just of questionable taste, Id say..
Yo Father, watch your laptop, u never know what people will see…and wink and leave.
My way of saying I Know what u are up to…mind yourself.
Im not here to be anyones judge we are all fallible and human
If it was my pastor, because of the relationship I have with him and his wife… I’d take a picture of the laptop, then remove the laptop, and text him that I took it and why, and tell him I’ll meet him at his house with his wife. I love him that much. It would SERIOUSLY SUCK. But I’d do it, no matter how mad he got at me. The health of their relationship is worth any risk I might take to my relationship with him…
truth? I’d probably tell a couple of my closest friends (who aren’t a part of the same community)… you know, as a prayer request… find passive aggressive ways to degrade the pastor because I now have found grounds that I’m better than he/she… (better fake, that is) and I would probably use it as an excuse at some point when things got hard and I wanted to leave…
we’re shooting for honest here, right?
My church has had a couple marriages torn apart by porn addiction. I know that it is subversive, and powerful. I also know that it has more power if it stays hidden. As a woman, I don’t think that addressing it alone with my pastor is an option. I’d get an elder and schedule a mtg. However, I have all kinds of resources. I think if he’s truly repentant and willing to come clean, seek help, and be accountable, removing him from office isn’t necessarily the best option. However, if excuses are made, I’m done. Porn is a form of idolatry, and can be pernicious. It can destroy lives. Excuses show that the porn has greater value than the viewer can admit.
It brings up another issue. We, as the church, are bad when it comes to sex and sexuality. We’re not good at being honest, open, or even discussing things. This silence gives porn way more power than it should have. It gives sex more power to determine the course of lives than it should have. The way we even talk about abstinence and marriage aren’t often helpful.
The discovery of a pastor looking at porn could bring some of these issues of sexuality to the forefront in a church, thus extending freedom and healing to more than just the pastor.
Chances are, though, that won’t happen. We’re not gifted at sexual grace, because we don’t know how to talk about it well in the church.