Naughty Or Nice, Or Maybe Think Twice
I’m going to keep this short, as to not say anything I will regret in the morning.
1. This is not a good idea. Just ask the Mexican restaurant listed on the naughty list…
2. I would like to have been a fly on the wall in the meeting where one of the largest churches in Dallas decided to provide a forum where people can rip on non Christian businesses. The meeting was probably too long. I suggest stand up meetings with no chairs so you talk about the stuff you need to talk about and this might have never happened.
3. See this post.
4. In all reality, this is probably just a bad idea that got accidentally put on the good idea board. I’d gladly take that staff through my ideation workshop for free to make sure they hit the “Hesitate” phase (phase 3) before they hit the “Adopt” phase (phase 4). 
They can sign up here…
5. I have had plenty of Bad Ideas see the light of day. A quick, “delete post” or “delete domain” can solve a mess of problems.
6. Sometimes a good or cute idea might be just that. Just because everyone nods and chuckles in a meeting does not mean you should execute it.
7. This is just one man’s opinion of this idea. You may think it is a great idea. But it’s my blog so I get to tell you that I think it is a horrible idea. And it’s your blog too so you get to tell me if it;s a good or bad idea. And it’s their website so they get to tell businesses if they are naughty or nice and show the love of Jesus.
8. I’m offended they used the Grinch. Do they not know the Grinch is based on the 16th century fable of Satan crawling down chimneys and stealing the souls of little children in the Eastern European village of Kagikstonen?
9. …I said I’d keep this short
Should we put them on the naughty or nice list?
Los
RAIN IT DOWN
Well, you posted it I see.
Redonkulus, that site. I don’t love it at all, but I’m intrigued by it. Like, at some point the site didn’t exist, and many people got together and ultimately concluded that it was a fantastic idea. Wow.
someone OBVIOUSLY has a lot of time in their hands over at first baptist dallas. =]
Definitely a “think twice” – this should have landed on the bad idea pile. However, having looked at it I’m at least glad to see that people have taken a lot more time to lift up good businesses versus slamming others.
If we only go to the “nice” places, how do we form relationships that lead others to Christ?
this is one of the most unedifying Christmas ideas i’ve ever seen.
I am appalled…what makes ANYONE think it’s okay to slam on others in this way? Umm…hello? Anyone home up there?
Although I must say there’s a LOT more businesses on the nice list than on the naughty list…still, though, it’s ridiculous.
it’s like saying, “we’re going to show you christ’s love by judging you publically!” yay! awesome! not really.
Right – because we all want to live in a ghetto of people that are valid only if they use the right words? Uhm, and are all of the people commenting on businesses they were Christmas shopping at just buying into the commercialization of the season anyway? Just sick. And another examples of Christians looking down their noses at people they don’t know a thing about.
Just used that delete key! About posted something I might regret tomorrow. So instead of what I was going to post I will simply say…
“Well said.”
Yay! The spirit of Christmas so overflows within my soul that I can’t help but spend time whining about people who don’t celebrate it exactly the same way I do!
Nothing keeps the Christ in Christmas like a good culture war.
That site is like a car accident. You don’t want to look at it but you can’t click out of it.
I wonder if anyone on the naughty list has an opportunity to experience enough grace to be put back on the nice list?
I’m sure I’ll be in the mocked minority with this view but I really don’t have a problem with it. If they want to create a list where people can patronize businesses that share their view on the use of “Merry Christmas” then so be it. If a business wants the business of the people who use that list, then they’ll say “Merry Christmas.” If they don’t, then they won’t do it.
If a business is saying “Happy Holidays” then they’re catering to the people who have issues with the word “Christmas.” I don’t see why it’s so horrible for the people who don’t have issue with it and would prefer to hear it be able to make their voice heard too.
My guys would call that plain “dumb”. Let’s show the world what Christmas is all about? Major fail!
My initial reaction was “naughty”. But I read through their list and was happy to see most of the responses are shout outs for “nice”. It’s great to see so many appreciative of the large and small celebrations of Christmas around them. Maybe they could change the premise a little and have it be just the “nice” list as it’s never a bad thing to call out the good in others.
A pastor in my area made a great point this morning. Let’s stop worrying about whether or not “Christ” is in Xmas, lets start putting the Mass back in Xmas.
Xians really need to stop taking themselves so seriously and refocus. It’s very difficult to be a light to others if you’re busy scolding them for not using the same language you use.
Wow, that is not showing the love of Christ at all. I would think that someone who is searching for God or a church to attend, will not likely choose the one that started put up this site. I don’t think that it says very much about the leadership of the church to allow this. This site it is not showing the fruit of the Spirit, especially “kindness” or “love”. How are we to draw people to Christ, when we put them down?
An atheist once wrote that he observed that Christians seem to find their (our) identity in the things they’re (we’re) against. While we should be against some things, this is not a battle that needs to be fought.
this is a really sucky idea. seriously. way to really promote the christmas spirit – throw local businesses (that don’t phrase their holiday greeting to your liking) under the bus.
way to celebrate baby Jesus, first baptist.
Crazy! Here is what I posted to their site:
“Let’s remember that the world is not suppose to follow in Christ, therefore Christmas IS just a time to celebrate worldly things. It is our job as Christ-followers to shine the light of Jesus and to SHOW the rest of the world Jesus’ ways. Slamming the world on a naughty list is not Christ-like in my humble opinion. Let’s show them our love, not shun them because they do not meet God’s standards – none of us do.”
This is a terrible idea all around.
I’m not sure if there is an instance where this could ever be a good idea…
How long will it be before someone posts this site on their “Naughty List”?
Already did.
I almost did!
Hey Los,
I went to see your “naughty” post and it is not there. I wonder if they have taken it off?
so did i, but pretty sure they won’t approve it.
It seems like if you post something to their naughty list, more people than ever will visit. You know– kinda like mom telling you NOT to do something makes you want to do it all the more.
An old pastor of mine used to say (jokingly) that we better make sure we only drink milk from Christian cows.
They need something like Youtube’s “Read my comment back to me” button, which text-to-speech’s your comment so you get to hear it before hitting submit.
According to the stats, it actually cut back on mean comments.
Don Miller recently tweeted something that I’d been thinking of lately:
“I really wish more stores would take Christ out of Christmas to distance Him from over-consumerism.”
In the 50′s and 60′s stores had no problems saying “Merry Christmas” but even back then the culture was such that Dr. Seuss was compelled to write “Grinch” and Charles Schultz was compelled to create the Charlie Brown Christmas special, so you can’t argue that taking “Christ out of Christmas” created the over-consumerism. Heck if truly returning Christ to Christmas DID kill over-consumerism, the stores would be even more averse to returning to “Merry Christmas.”
That mini-rant aside once again I drop into another pet peeve that really shines a light on this site’s irony: the Grinch story, like the Scrooge story, is one of REDEMPTION and Grace. The Whos did NOT circle around the tree and blame the Grinch for stealing their Christmas, because Christmas is NOT bought in a store. The Grinch realized this, why can’t the Church? Why can’t we be more like the Whos, ignoring what people do “to” us and celebrating what He did FOR us anyway?
Here’s what I posted (I’m sure they won’t publish it):
This church in Dallas has poorly represented Christians and Christmas. As if saying the words “Merry Christmas” is some sort of litmus test for being a real Christian and a real American. In England, Christians won’t say “Merry” Christmas because it connotes drunkenness and debauchery that characterized the pagan winter holiday that was originally celebrated on Dec. 25. How about instead of worrying whether someone in a retail establishment greets you properly–and them outing them on this ridiculous site when they don’t meet your standards–you worry about sharing the good news of a saviour who wants to touch and heal hurting people. Give to the poor this Christmas. Cook a meal for someone who’s alone this year. Stop and pray with a homeless person.
Would Jesus want you to spend your time in Nordstrom’s waiting to glare at the pagan sales assistant who wishes you a “Happy Holidays,” all while bowing down to the idol of consumerism with your shopping habits? Or would he like you to spread unconditional love and joy to ALL this season, and maybe even cut back on spending in order to bless those in need?
Come on Christ Followers! We can do better than this!
Here’s my reply
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/KrisByerly/GrinchAlert.jpg
haha…epic ending. I like to picture Jesus in a tuxedo shirt, cause it says I want to be formal…but I’m here to party too.
i nominate fbc dallas to be on their own naughty…b/c in their own way they are taking christ out of christmas.
Oh. My. How very self-righteously religious of them.
Thank you for your post. Thank you for being brave enough to post the wisdom you have on this.
I submitted the owners of that site for the naughty list. Here’s what I said… We’ll see if it makes it on there.
“I would like to nominate this website on the naughty list. Why do Christians (and I am one) expect the world to honor Christ during Christmas??? Hello… they’re lost! Why should they honor Christ during Christmas or any other time of the year? Good grief, Charlie Brown… Instead of trying to shove Jesus down their throats by “keeping Christ in Christmas”, why don’t we actively engage them in conversation and love? Don’t you think keeping Christ in every facet of our lives would be a better witness to them?
Think about it… How many people are being brought to Christ by “loving” movements like this?”
Why do christians get so bent out of shape when people say happy holidays?
There are other holidays happening now besides Christmas…
I guess stores could just say all of them…
This is the most awkward thing for me, a dear friend of mine, with an up and coming web graphics business, did this web site, he was so excited to have this gig, his father was telling us about it and how it was going to be featured on Fox news, I was like “oh cool” and thinking the entire time “wow, yuck”, so I hate that a church wanted to do this but I’m glad my friend got the business..I know, but he’s a great guy just trying to make a living like us all..I pray this doesn’t affect him adversely…BTW, have you seen Jon Stewart’s clip about The War on Christmas? http://www.carolesmithturner.com/2010/12/can-i-get-hurumph.html
when my husband told me about that website yesterday, I immediately thought of your #3 reason! You should send your list to them, and then wish them happy holidays! ha
I cringed when i saw this guy all over TV today.
If anything, we as Christians should run, not walk to those businesses on the naughty list and make our faith visible and love those business owners.
It’s not very difficult to love those who already love you.
It’s saddening that the creator of this website doesn’t have the capacity to understand that innocent employees and their families may be directly affected financially by this scarlet letter.
A misguided representative of the Way!
Can I just say that I could care less if someone says Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays? But I DO care that such a freaking hoo-ha has been made of it.
“Christians” are becoming more and more ridiculous as the world watches us choke on gnats and swallow camels.
God save us from our need to be right instead of righteous all the time.
I put our church on the naughty list. We say Happy Holidays in our public gatherings. Screw you, haters.
Ha ha…you made me snort.
And they’ll know we are Christians, by our picketing the picketers.
wait.
I’m picketing the picketers of the picketers. Right now.
Let’s let love cover a multitude of sins. Who wants to come over for cider? We’re all on the same team. That’s Jesus’ bride you are railing against. She’s a bit beat up already.
Rallying or asking for change?
When can we talk about this stuff?
I think i read this is the Book somewhere.
But someone will say, “You say Merry Christmas; I say Happy Holidays.”
Show me your Merry Christmas without deeds, and I will show you my Happy Holidays by what I do. You believe that there is one way to say Christmas. Good! Even the demons believe that — and shudder.
I might have needed the edit button on this one…
How much better is it for us to slam this website and the church that created it?
I don’t think it was the best of ideas.. but publicizing our “dislike” is like erring our dirty laundry for all to see.
What is the non-believer that reads this blog and its comments supposed to think?… there go those Christians arguing with eachother again!
I believe that we should praise in public, but criticize in private.
I disagree Curtis. People need to know that not all Christians are okay with this sort of thing. Public silence is tacit approval. If someone googles to find the grinchalert site, a site like this needs to be among the first alternatives listed.
I do think that criticism should be respectful and done in love, but it cannot be kept private or the wrong sort of Christianity is all the world will ever see.
Btw, I find the general tenor here to be respectful. Most people seem to have stayed with the “bad idea that made it out” line. If that is the extent of our criticism then I think we’re doing okay.
“Public silence is tacit approval.” could be used in deffence of this sight… just sayin.
Before sounding too hypocritical… My intent was not to criticize this post. But honestly, I was surprised by the intensity of the responses.
I agree with BenofBenandJacq above. I think that the discussion and the topic is great, but is it counter-productive to be discussing a specific organization? Especially a ministry?
I never mentioned the ministry…
I think was at best a bad idea that should have been rethought. It seems like a lot of churches are still trying to figure out what to use the Internet for, many go in for novelty uses like this, not considering fully what sort of web presence they are conveying to a wider world.
I worry though that this may be more than a bad idea. I am not familiar with this church and I am not going to speculate on them in particular, but if you find yourself in a church where judgment flows freely and grace becomes some sort of divine magic – instead of an approach to life that you are to participate in and exemplify – you need to find a different church.
I posted on this site today. I added First Baptist Dallas to the naughty list with this story:
“This church expects their neighbors, coworkers, and places of employment who are IN and OF the world and have no clue of the hope,love, and standards of Jesus to live by Christian morals and standards. That’s naughty behavior that will turn people away from the message of the gospel. And that’s naughty theology too.”
I bet it doesn’t make the approved list and get on the website.
honestly, i wasn’t that offended by the site, but i just think it colors them petty. i told them that Jesus is the king of the universe, that he doesn’t need our help to “preserve” him.
Is that church punking the Internet? Or is the pastor going to use this experience as some sort of elaborate sermon illustration?
It doesn’t seem real to me at all. Who says things like, “they have a Christmas tree in the center of their showroom and aren’t afraid to wish their customers a Merry Christmas!” When I was a non-believer, I had a Christmas tree and said Merry Christmas, but it didn’t really mean anything other than a cultural tradition. God isn’t really impressed by our outward appearances, but the condition of our hearts.
Guess what?
I am going to give my money to all those businesses on the Naughty List.
Insert John 17 here.
Ha! I agree. HORRIBLE idea.
So I went ahead and submitted our church plant for the naughty list – http://twitpic.com/3ejyr0
I’ll have to go back and see if they post it. LOL.
1. Just b/c you say “happy holidays” doesn’t mean you are not acknowledging Christmas.
2. He said in his Fox News interview that it was suppose to be fun. http://www.firstdallas.org/article/dr-jeffress-on-fox-news-why-grinchalertcom/ blah, blah blah
3. I give up on all of this, b/c IMO this is not what Jesus intended when He came into this world to save us from our sins.
I have a great idea. I think I am going to put ragamuffinsoul.com on the naughty list for saying Xmas. Want to see your traffic spike, ‘Los? Let’s see how aware of their silliness they actually are. I am certain that this post increased their traffic, so I think it’s only fair.
That whole idea is very poor judgement and makes all Christians look bad.
I get what that church was getting at. Not a good execution of what may have been a good idea way back at the start.
I get what you all are getting at here. I get that blog interaction is one of the only ways a large “discussion” can happen (put in quotes only because we are limited in tone, inflection and by a comment box).
Things do need to be discussed and brought to light. And I get that we all don’t want to be lumped in to a picture of Christianity that isn’t “us”/doesn’t represent us.
I just wonder if these kind of ways are the best, rather than writing to that church directly, offering our thoughts and ideas for how it could have been executed differently/better.
Ghandi was right.
Cringe worthy…at the least.