Can Christians Disagree On Politics Without Being Complete Idiots?
It’s funny.
When Luke wears this shirt and when he does not wear this shirt, I, with my own eyes, see Christians treat him differently.
I started thinking…
Before any show, Luke turns that bad boy inside out as to not offend anyone from stage.
Responsible move I guess.
But at the same time, I can’t help but wonder if people can see past the face on the chest to see the face on Luke’s head.
What are your thoughts on how Christians can agree to disagree on politics without being complete idiots?
Can it be done?
Los
RAIN IT DOWN
you have to go in not to win, but to state your case and hear the other opponent. All sorts of assumptions get made that the other person believes it out of self interest or some other ulterior motive – which is refusing to acknowledge they had just as solid reasons for their viewpoint as you do for your differing perspective.
very, very true!
My 14 year old daughter wore my Obama T-shirt to church last week. She started to chicken out, she said she would get harassed, but then I told her that I would pay her $5 if she kept it on. So she did. She’s very brave. I think I can safely say that 80% of the people at my church detest Obama. I actually didn’t vote for him but it was the hardest vote casting I have ever done. I prayed while in the booth. But, I was glad when he was elected, I felt God had worked it all out. I was very torn because I like a lot about his politics but not everything. But anyways, yea, I am labeled a liberal by most of my church family but they still love me and treat me well. Even my daughter, who was with teenagers at youth group, didn’t get harassed that bad. Just a few idiots, and she handled them well. We talk about politics a lot at home (I’m James Carvell and my husband is Mary Matlin) so my daughter is more educated then most, and even with my church friends, we have very civil discussions.
Whenever we all come to the shocking conclusion that the greatest commandment other than loving God was to love others (and not make sure our taxes are doled out the way we most prefer), Luke will be able to rock his shirt (or lack thereof) in peace. Until then, well, we can all just agree that the Pres at least has cute kids (argue that! I dare you!).
As Christians we’re taught to beleive in abolute truths even if we can’t prove them 100%. That doesn’t translate so well to politics where you have directly opposite points of view on many issues. We’ve forgotten that it’s ok to compromise
I think Christians, or anyone else for that matter, can disagree about politics without being complete idiots simply by remembering that politics isn’t the most important thing in the world. The most important thing in the world is how you respond to the message and person of Jesus Christ.
I’m not going to lie. I am to a certain degree judgmental, maybe a lot – in fact. If I see a christian wearing an Obama t-shirt or even a Che Guevara t-shirt..I have made these assumptions / judgements (1)they don’t know all the facts about what the leaders stand for. Ignorance (2) They’re trying to be provocative.
I think it’s also important to be sensitive when wearing a political t-shirt to church or a concert, as you don’t want to be offensive to those who do not share the same sentiment or political opinion. And you don’t want anything to be a distraction that will lead people to focus on something other than God.
When you wear a t-shirt with a logo you are in fact indorsing that political figure / product etc.
Perhaps I’m close minded. Perhaps I’m way to conservative. Perhaps I need prayer
No, we look like idiots on everything. We typically have the, “I’m right you’re wrong” mentality. And it can even be on stupid things like sports.
nicodemusatnite.com
NO
I live 20 miles from the White House. Our neighbors, my in-laws, our church, our dog…all have their own political beliefs that everybody seems to treat as “who they are”. It’s tough to hear political stuff from the pulpit and watching people get uncomfortable because some of the point of views are coming from his mind and are preached like the truth. Politics, lighting, parking, music…everybody has their own opinion and believe it’s THE truth and not just THEIR truth.
My stance on politics is very simple. As long as one party moves to make abortions more readily available/possible, I will be voting for the other party. You can have all sorts of wonderful ideas about financial prospects, and international policies, but if you’re giving a pass to killing babies, I’ve got to go a different way. I’m sorry if that sounds harsh, or offends anyone…it’s just my opinion.
I guess I didn’t answer your question, though, did I? I don’t really discuss politics if I can avoid it. That’s how I agree to disagree. They’re not going to change my mind, and chances are, I’m not going to change theirs, so why argue over it?
So… my question is, do you think I can be a Christian and be a Democrat at the same time?
Oh, I think the answer to that would be the same as whether or not you can be a Christian and live in a million dollar house…or be a Christian and watch a movie with alot of negative influence in it. You can…but it’s probably not the best use of your time/resources.
My return question to you is, if you are a Christian and a Democrat, what do you do with the abortion issue. The democrats may get you more money (not a definite fact), or more governmental programs, but aren’t you really selling out the lives of those people to get them? Again, not trying to be confrontational or argumentative…just curious where you stand on the issue of abortion and how you reconcile it…if you do.
You can be a democrat, oppose abortion, and be a Christian. Its easy to oppose abortion. Its a lot more difficult to support the born and neglected. As one Christian worship leader said “We are not “Pro-Life” if we fail to support the foster care system. Caring for the born & neglected is much harder than opposing abortion.” -@robbieseay”
I am a democrat. I am opposed to abortion. And I love the Lord more than ANYTHING in this world. I just don’t believe that its the governments place to patrol morality and try to tell a woman what she can and cant do with her body. Its between the woman and her doctor. Not between the woman and the government. In addition, I do not agree with so many republican’s tactics of trying to force people to have babies/children they can not support (financially or emotionally) and then when they need help (and I am NOT just talking welfare) the government turns their back on them (Think republicans typical stand on public education… on social programs…). We, as Christians, are called to love like Jesus. Loving like Jesus isn’t turning your back on those who need you the most… which is most often, the born and neglected.
Ultimately though, and to answer Los’ questions- I think if people will stand for what they believe but also be quick to listen, even to those they disagree with, then yes, Christians can disagree on politics without being complete idiots. As Rick Warren said… “Jesus loved everyone equally without agreeing with everyone equally.To only LIKE those u agree with is spiritual immaturity”
No, no, no, no, no, no, no… Your view of abortion is inconsistent on every level. You’re opposed to abortion for you personally, but you think it’s ok for another woman to murder her child (it’s not about “her body”, it’s about the body of her child!).
Following your logic, the government shouldn’t impose morality in making child abuse, rape, or murder illegal. That’s obviously not what you believe, but if you believe it’s ok for a woman to murder her child without govt interference, you have to follow that train to it’s inevitable end.
If you believe we should love like Jesus, what about loving those innocent lives that are being snuffed out?
You need to seriously think through your position and don’t let your political lens cloud your vision. I’m not saying you’ve done that, but you are definitely pro choice, and that is in direct opposition to the clear teaching of the Lord you claim to love with all your heart.
I think, and please tell me if I’m wrong, that she is saying is that we should have the choice, but everyone should choose not to do it. We have freedom of choice to live for Christ or not, and people choose not to all the time. We can’t make a law about that, what we CAN do is reach the world for Christ through our own convictions. So voting one way or the other can not and does not negate someone’s love for Jesus Christ. And it is true, as long as we accept the children of women who considered abortion and chose life, as a community we need to help be a support. What if our churches took such great care of these babies that we didn’t need welfare?
Thank you Sarah for saying that more clearly! You said exactly what I was trying to say!
Thanks for your response Laura. I have to agree with Chad in saying that the issue is not between a woman and her doctor, but between a woman, her doctor, and her baby. Since the baby can’t speak, it has no say? If you do not specifically oppose abortion in every case, then I am forced to believe that either you think the unborn are not really life, or if you think they are, then there are occasions where ending innocent life is justified. If you feel there is another option that I haven’t covered, please feel free to respond.
In the case of Republicans wanting to force people to have children they can not support, I will agree with you to the extent that exists. Anyone that would say, “You cannot abort that child…you must bear them and then support them!” would be pretty messed up. That’s what adoption is for. There are people all over the world that are wanting to adopt children. Does it put a burden on the mother to carry the child to term? Yes. It does. But once they have, they have other choices than trying to physically or emotionally care for the child. My wife and I are currently in the process of adopting a little girl from Rwanda. We haven’t gotten a referral yet, so there isn’t a particular girl assigned to us yet, but whomever God has chosen for us will be our daughter…and I’m more greatful than words can say that her mother decided to have her and give her to us, than take the quicker route
Even if she’s saying women should have the choice, that’s still saying women should have the right to murder their children, which NO Christian (or sensible human being) should support.
By voting for Obama or other pro-choice democrat, a Christian is actively playing a role in the continual genocide of millions of babies.
I don’t get mixed up on taxes, guns, or any other hot button political point, but abortion is not about politics or party affiliation… its about protecting innocent babies. Christians, mores than any other group, should recognize this.
Exactly, Chad. I don’t see how anyone can claim to really love Christ and support the murder of babies. And by saying you support “choice”, you’re supporting the killing of babies because that’s what happens with that “choice.”
I dont believe you cant look at a political candidate for any one topic, especially on a national level. I vote for who I think will do the best job across the board. Abortion is a huge issue and topic, but so is our failing economy, so is unemployment, so is gay rights…. I vote by who I think is going to do the best, regardless of party. BUT… most of the time that is more democratic because I cant take the hypocritical right wing who will one second claim their stand based on their love of Christ and faith but then immediately turn around and call the unwed mother a whore…
At the end of the day, I can go to bed with no worry. Christ knows my heart. And, as Christians, we will end up in the exact same place. I respect your differing opinion. Our differences is one of the great things God has given us.
i’ve observed the 2 major parties (and used to be registered as one or the other at different times in my life) and am now registered independent. it’s not been a matter of democrat vs. republican for me for quite a few years now. what i do is look at every single candidate, including/especially independents and minor party candidates and vote based on their documented positions. if i can’t find a candidate that i’m satisfied will line up with my convictions, i just don’t vote for that particular office. many people say i’m throwing away my vote, but at the end of the day i have to be able to lay my head on my pillow and know i stayed true to my beliefs and convictions. speak for the unborn, support the newly born and his/her parent(s) as God leads, and lovingly agree to disagree with those whose politics are different than your own if you just have to have that discussion
If I had to choose between the two evils, I’d have to go with the right winger calling the unwed mother a whore over the left winger encouraging her to murder her child… They’re both evils; no doubt about that, but lets not draw an equal comparison to a woman being insulted with a child being murdered.
There are no laws on taxes, size of government, economy, unemployment, gay rights, or any other issue that are as important as protecting the lives of innocent children. If I’m wrong in that logic, please explain how that is so.
I would encourage you to truly dig deep on this issue as every Christian should, because I have a feeling you’re much more ambivalent than anyone that truly believes abortion is murder should be.
I pray that one day we will look back on abortion as we do slavery. “What were they thinking?”.
Exactly. Allowing that choice is condoning it.
Silence is acceptance.
This should never be a debate between christians.
Watch abortion videos. Find out what a partial birth abortion is (which Obama supports) You WILL NOT IN GOOD CONCIENCE BE ABLE TO SUPPORT HIM. EVER…or anyone who is “pro choice”. It’s horrific, and dare I even say EVIL.
There’s no “dare I say” about it… Abortion is the murder of a child, and that is as evil as evil gets. This is one of the sins that the Lord particularly hated and judged the nations for (sacrificing their children to Molech, causing them to “pass through the fire”).
Excellent post, Andrea.
The problem is that the government is involved by supporting and financing abortions. In addition, if you think its ok to kill a baby if its unborn and unwanted is it also ok to kill a baby that is born and unwanted? If u believe a baby is created and a child of god in the womb as the bible says, then shouldnt we protect their lives equally?
Exactly…
Please check out these ministries for more info. I’d be happy to discuss this with anyone so tweet me or FB me.
http://www.str.org (Greg Koukl and the Stand to Reason ministry have excellent resource on this)
http://www.abort73.com
http://www.prolifetraining.com (Scott Klusendorf)
This is not an issue we can straddle the fence on. We must be committed to protecting the lives of innocent children. To be conscious of the poor, helpless, and needy (as we VERY much should be), but turn a blind eye to innocent children being murdered is the epitome of hypocrisy.
We should love women who have had abortions and not hate them. We should approach them in love and mercy, just as Jesus does. We should support ministries that provide Christ centered and loving pre (and post) abortion counseling. We should support adoption ministries… and we should vote for pro life candidates and vote AGAINST pro-choice candidates.
The bad thing about pro-life democrats is they always cave under the pressure from the rest of their party. That happened very recently with the Obama-care bill. At the end of the day, the pro-life democrats gave ground in support of the greater good of the party. It’s incredibly sad… but they did it, and they always have. :-/
If I’ve come across as angry, I do apologize. I just get very passionate about this, especially when there are professing Christians that are condoning abortion. It literally grieves my soul… If there was a government policy that gave the right to parents to murder their children under the age of 5, there would be an outcry. The thing is, the only difference is the size of the child, it’s level of development, it’s environment, or it’s degree of dependency. It’s still every bit as human as you or I.
I agree that a woman should have a choice when it comes to having a child or not. I just have a problem with where most people think that choice occurs in the whole process.The way I see it, the choice comes before the pregnancy. Pregnancy doesn’t just happen. It comes as a result of certain actions.
I also agree that we as Christians are called to love like Jesus. The key is that WE AS CHRISTIANS (NOT THE GOVERNMENT) are called to love like Jesus. Government social programs that try to help people who won’t help themselves can ruin a nation, but Christians/churches who help those in need (regardless of what decisions or circumstances got them there) can change the world.
The sad thing is… government is stepping up because the Big “C” church is not. I am not saying there are not churches out there who are not doing wonderful things. But think about how many women and men who carry the scarlet letter on their chest (or in their womb) who have been scorned and made to feel like horrible people for the unplanned pregnancy, the unfaithfulness, the addiction, or whatever other problem by so many people calling themselves Christians. Christ has a history of accepting people right where they are, even when we make mistakes or screw up. Amazing grace… its more than just a song?! Unfortunately so many Christians don’t offer that same grace that we are Biblically called to offer. Again, I am not saying all Christians but as a general comment. It is also important to remember that for everyone that abuses the social systems, there are just as many who are utilizing the system for exactly what it was designed to do.
Oh, I agree with that whole-heartedly.
I do too… but that doesn’t make voting for a pro-abortion candidate acceptable.
I would think he’d get in much more trouble when he drummed without the shirt on.
Many of my drummer friends will drum without their shirts on. It’s cooler that way (pun intended)
Interesting question. It was for me to be around my church office during the 2008 campaign. We had pastors at our organization on both sides. It seemed like everybody had their own personal opinions about who should win (of course) but they all respected their peer’s opinions too. Maybe it was the realization that no matter the outcome, they still had to work with these people and they didn’t want to ruffle any feathers.
We did all come together in our youth room though to watch the inauguration. Even though half the room voted for McCain, everybody wanted to watch history be made.
Is it possible for ANY people to disagree on politics without being a complete idiot?
Yes– if they give space for others to have their own opinions and remember that we work best when we’re working together, instead of ripping each other apart.
Christians?
We’re a funny lot. I go to a multi-racial church with attendees all across the political spread… some people LEFT the church after the election because they didn’t like that we publicly acknowledged that no matter what our personal beliefs are, history was made that day and we are grateful.
On another note… I have Obama earrings. They’re awesome.
Nope. Not as long as abortion and gay rights continue to be issues.
The problem is, the face on his chest is at least as big as the one on his head. However you feel about the politic, and whatever face you might put on the shirt, by putting the face there you’re basically pointing attention to the person on the shirt. It’s for that reason that I try not to wear anything distracting when I lead worship. I want the attention on Christ – not me or my shirt.
I think it’s entirely possible to disagree on politics and not be an idiot. I almost always disagree with your political stance. But was stoked to be a part of your coaching network the first chance I could. We didn’t talk politics. But I’m sure that if we had, we would both approach the other with respect.
In the end, it all comes down to where our hope lies. I try not to become too enmeshed in political leanings, because at the end of the day, I need to be enmeshed in the pursuits of a different Kingdom.
I’ve seen some Christians go completely nutzo and look completely unlike Christ when it comes to voicing their political opinions. We can call it being “passionate,” but in the end, we’re just being jerks.
But, the more I’ve looked into it and been frustrated by Americanism overshadowing the truth of the gospel, the more I’ve realized “In God We Trust” is one of the biggest jokes in history. The truth is, we don’t trust in God when we cave to the world’s whisperings that a good career is the source of our provision. We don’t trust in God when we pour 400 billion dollars into a national defense budget instead of using that money to create life instead of death.
Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. And any time that I or any other Christian judge another person for supporting a political candidate, we have to realize we’re all kind of looking to the wrong source.
I think you hit the nail on the head here. We will always have differences in political opinion. Always. Especially as there will always be people on opposite sides of the gay rights and abortion issues. My problem comes with Christians who cannot view these differences with respect but instead come at you with judgment and condemnation.
Yes, I am a Christian. Yes, I voted for Obama. No, I do not believe I am going to hell for doing so. I know that Republicans can think I am crazy for the things I support, but the feeling goes both ways
Do I agree with you? No. Do I judge you? No. Please grant me the same courtesy.
I also do not want politics preached to me from the pulpit. Do not tell me who to vote for. Do not tell me how I should feel about a certain issue. I can’t get my head around churches that are militant about their political views and can’t show love. There is a mega-church here in Macon that put out thousands of pink and blue flags in front of their church for Pro-Life Month. While I respect their opinions, you can’t tell me that every single person in that 5,000+ member church feels that way. They might as well have put a “Dems not welcome sign” on the marquis.
Whew, vent over. Thanks.
Both are great comments here! I agree!!!
Politicians change their stances on issues more than I change my underwear.
I don’t really get into the political discussions. I used to. But there was a time that I was in a College Sunday School class and during some prayer time, a guy in the class asked for prayer for another guy that lived near him on capmpus because he was a Democrat.
I was waiting for him to add on some other reason to somewhat make this a legitimate request. But that was it.
Wow. After that, I give up.
I wish it was possible but some people just can’t do it. I know some of those people. They flip out if they find out someone is gay or if they voted for President Obama. As Christian’s we are called to love people and tell them about the good news of Christ. However, we, especially in the USA, believe we were also called to condemn and judge people that don’t believe what we believe especially when in comes to politics. We need to look past the life cover and look at the heart and the needs they have.
I personally could care less who anyone voted for. At least they voted. That’s the important part.
It can happen.
BUT….the problem is not so much the politics. The problem is when Christians question the motives of other Christians when it comes to their politics.
I’ll turn it around, away from President Obama and back towards the other side. I know that my commitment to the poor has been questioned by Christians because I don’t support higher taxes. I have been accused of “hating” gay people by other Christians because I don’t support gay marriage. I have been accused of other Christians of wanting to “control women” because I am opposed to abortion.
In each case, there isn’t mere disagreement with me on an issue. Other Christians are questioning my motives for my views on various issues. Before anybody pipes up, I acknowledge this happens on both sides. I am merely speaking from my POV.
If we can disagree without questioning the motives of others we’d be in much better shape.
pastors and parents teach this behavior. every generation hopes that it’ll be the one to put an end to stupid behavior. but it keeps going and going.
this time around, smaller people have larger voices, which can be used for good AND bad.
let’s promote the good voices as best we can, and we might not only hush up the bad small ones, but the bad big ones too.
Here is the simplest answer for me. Change your Politics. You see we Christians are looking to the government to be what the church is supposed to be.
The Church is God’s ordained instrument for justice, change, and charity. God didn’t charge Pilot to Heal the sick, cast out devils, and make disciples.
James wasn’t talking to Cesar when he said, “true religion is to care for widow and orphan.” They spoke to the church.
We get in huge arguments because the government does not, “act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.” I don’t care if the government does. I WILL.
Joshua said to the people of Israel in the city of Shechem, “As for me and My house, we will serve the Lord.” The call is for Christians to rise up and do what God has asked. It would be great to see Christians do it right.
That is why I respect people like Juan Galloway in NJ, Shane Claibourne in PA, The guys at the Dream Center in LA and STL. Pastor Rick Kloos in Topeka, KS. They are taking Justice and Mercy and putting it back in the hands of the church.
Back to politics as I fear I have gone off target. Here is perfect politics for you. One day Jesus is coming, and when he comes, he will establish his Kingdom on the earth, he will rule and reign in Righteousness. No one else is Jesus. So until he comes every political system is fail.
When we remember this, it becomes easier to not argue or have problems because we care less about politics and more about God (1st commandment) and Others (2nd Commandment)
I love Luke, but his shirt is in direct opposition to stated political views. On his Facebook page under politics, he simply says “I hate abortion”. If this is a true statement (and as a Christian, it absolutely should be), then him wearing the shirt makes no sense at all.
It’s not hard to figure out Obama is indeed the most pro-abortion President we’ve ever had. He’s very vocal about it, and because of that, I personally think Luke needs to rethink wearing the shirt since he is sending out a glaring inconsistent message… “I hate abortion but I support this president that wholeheartedly embraces it”.
If you think it’s wrong for fellow Christians to look at him differently when he’s wearing that shirt as a drummer in a Christian band, I disagree. I’m not saying they should be rude or mean, but you have GOT to understand why this would bug people. In all honesty, it should bug Luke and it should bug you…
We’re not talking about politics here… We’re talking about innocent human lives. Abortion is not a political issue. It’s a human rights issue, and we as Christians should oppose it.
I’m pretty sure I just typed all that without being an idiot, but we’ll see…
Well, not “should bug Luke and should bug you”, but I’m very interested to understand why it doesn’t…
I’m against alcohol, but I support Applebees.
Why can’t someone hate abortion, but support the other policies of the current President?
I hate war (lots of killing there), but I supported George W. Bush.
chad,
i read what you said an i totally understand what you are saying. yes, i hate abortion and everything about it, but i recently in the last 5 years or so was really convicted about my views on our president. my views were that anyone, president or not, that was a democrat i would not like and not support. i was convicted when i realized that God has not called us as Christians to “agree” and “believe” everything that the president says and believes in BUT He does call us to respect the authority that He has placed over us. In saying that i DO NOT believe in abortion, but i 100% will honor our president as the leader of the nation that I have been blessed to live in. I dont think that God was surprised when Obama was elected. So in saying that, i have a shirt with our president on it. i also have one with George W. Bush on it. and i get crap for it too. I honor our president as the God given leader of the USA, and its just a shirt.
Excellent response…although I would propose that you can definitely respect his position without promoting his agenda. You respect his position by not forwarding the emails that circulate that degrade and insult the man. I can disagree with his position and still not call him an idiot or say that he secretly wants to kill all 17 year olds named Sam. I don’t personally sport a bumper sticker with his name, or wear any of his paraphenalia, though, because to me, it seems less like respect for his position and more an endorsement of his practices.
Thanks bro! Excellent response… Paul and Peter both called the Christians of their day to pray for the Emperor, who would one day murder both of them, so I’m sure that was extremely scandalous to the readers of those epistles. I’m not sure Paul or Peter would have worn a Nero tunic though…
Like I said… Love ya dude. Go Rangers!
I pretty much loathe Obama….but I still love my Christian friends who (for whatever strange reason) support him.
So, apparently, my idiotic answer speaks volumes. lol.
In all seriousness, I generally try to remember that people’s beliefs are genuine and wholehearted….I [try to always] have respect for anyone who has convictions….even if I don’t agree with them. The way they treat me/others is far more important to me than their political beliefs.
Thank you. I wish there were more Republican Christians like you. I am so tired of people looking at me like I have a third arm because I am a Christian and voted for Obama. You may not agree with me, but at least you respect me.
Politics is one of the most difficult & uncomfortable topics for me to discuss with my church family. I find it ironic that, as a younger person, I can be surprisingly open with my friends & small groups when discussing the usual uneasy topics like science, sex, money and youth culture. However, being open about my political view points is something I almost never discuss unless I know someone very well.
I find that it tends to be easier to talk about the usual uneasy topics above because they involve personal struggles with sin, something we all have in common, whereas politics seems to focus more on divisions and differences. In other words, what we do not agree on.
Maybe it’s possible as Christians to disagree on politics without looking like squabbling idiots, but it goes against the common paradigm.
A lot of people wear shirts that say something because it lines up with what they believe. If you wear a shirt that has the photo of Barack Obama, whether you like it or not, you are saying, “This is what I believe and what I support”.
If you want others to look past the face on your chest to see the face on your head, then wear a plain shirt, because people can’t seperate the two, and I don’t think the wearer of the shirt wants you to seperate the two, otherwise he wouldn’t wear it. This goes for any brand or image.
Well said.
christians are suppose to extend grace to everyone.
except democrats.
it’s in the bible.
somewhere in the back.
Hesetations 3:9 – “Thou shalt smite the democrats with the heaping coals of the buring flesh of the damned and all that what not. Thus sayeth the guy who wrote this.”
is that the scripture you meant?
yep. that’s the one.
well, you know there is only one way to heaven so there must be only one way to vote. LOL
A foreigner’s view: is the issue that in the US, one party has very successfully branded itself as the party of Christianity, so the other one must be the Party of Satan? This then provokes equally ‘robust’ responses from those who don’t believe ‘Religious’ and ‘Right’ have to be synonymous.
I can see policies that honour God and ones that grieve Him on both sides, as I can with the three major British parties.
My view? Vote on balance, accept that others weigh matters differently, compare views, and love them regardless. And get on with being the Church together.
I think every person of faith should read and know these statistics.
http://www.religiousinstitute.org/sites/default/files/open_letters/openletteronmaternalmortalityandreprojustice-1.pdf
Guessing not. I mean the title of the post asking the question consists of calling people who don’t like the shirt your friend is wearing and are bothered by it “idiots”.
And the beat goes on… Bad Da Dum Da Dum Dum.
That’s actually the biggest stretch ever.
I’m not a fan of either party. frankly i don’t trust anyone who wants the job; seems to me they get in there for the sole purpose of acquiring power.
Is abortion murder? that is the question that unfortunately defines the political mindscape for many christians. Many of us have decided that it is. So it is this one issue that decides my vote, even though I find the way the republicans treat the working poor reprehensible.
I have a different question? Who pays their taxes, regardless of who is in the White House?
good discussion to have.
here is a killer sermon from tim keller.
deals brilliantly with the question.
http://davemiers.com/2010/08/08/arguing-about-politics-tim-keller-sermon/
I personally am fiscally conservative as well as socially conservative. However, there are lots of people who believe in Obama’s plans for more government bailouts and handouts. You can agree with that but oppose the other views of abortion and same sex marriages. The problem is there is so much more involved nowadays with Republican or Democrat. It’s not as simple as Repblican=prolife and Democrat=prochoice. To think it’s that simple is just plain ignorant. And, yes, then you look like and idiot. The lines are blurred. I think you have to look at the full agenda and weigh the pros and cons of both politicians. I can personally say I am wholeheartedly conservative thru and thru because I see way too many people take advantage of our generous government day in and day out at my job and I’m simply sick of it. But I think the more Christian viewpoint is socially conservative and fiscally liberal. Maybe I’m less Christian than others but I just am not a fan of working 2 jobs and giving most of my money away to people who have no job. That said, I do respect our countries leader. I just don’t choose to agree with all he says or does. Neither Bush nor Obama.
The broader question is ‘can Christians disagree on anything without being idiots?’ and most of the time, the answer is no.
We are set in our ways. Some Christians “know” what is right and will treat all else as wrong, without doing any research for themselves. We would call people judgmental for doing that towards the faith we have, but we fail to do our research or leave room for how others feel or think about things.
I think it is possible you just have to remember Our faith may influence our political possition. However just because you are a christian does not mean you have to vote a certian way. In the end I think it is most important to remember if we are spending to much time focused on politics we might be majoring in the minors given what we are called to do
Doesn’t matter. When you guys perform, what’s the purpose? Political shirts have no place in the church or in a worship concert. Why does he wear it? He doesn’t have a different shirt? He wears it to make a point of some sort. It would be just as wierd to see a shirt with Ronald Reagan’s face on it. I would be like, “Dude, what’s with the shirt?”.
As for treating people differently, we don’t all agree about everything and quite frankly, we don’t have to. Being a Christian doesn’t make you immune to my opinions.
Some people might even say, “this Obama guy might be a Christian, but that gives him no right to steal from my grandchildren. Oh, I’m sorry, you’re a Christian?, Well in that case, I Love your shirt!”.
Come on man?
I’m not going to lie. I am to a certain degree judgmental, maybe a lot – in fact. If I see a christian wearing an Obama t-shirt or even a Che Guevara t-shirt..I have made these assumptions / judgements (1)they don’t know all the facts about what the leaders stand for. Ignorance (2) They’re trying to be provocative.
I think it’s also important to be sensitive when wearing a political t-shirt to church or a concert, as you don’t want to be offensive to those who do not share the same sentiment or political opinion. And you don’t want anything to be a distraction that will lead people to focus on something other than God.
When you wear a t-shirt with a logo you are in fact indorsing that political figure / product etc.
Perhaps I’m close minded. Perhaps I’m way to conservative. Perhaps I need prayer
I can agree to the fact that the democrats are all idiots…in Jesus’ name
Wait, that might not have been right… I meant I never agree to disagree, I just agree that you haven’t seen the error in your ways yet and admit that I am right.
Idiots are more fun.
One of the biggest blows to American Christianity’s credibility was when a select group got in bed, figuratively, with right wing politicians. It’s not that they were right wing; it’s that they were politicians, and it was all for power, not to spread the Gospel. Now, Christians are all different people and have all different political beliefs, and that’s okay. I would love to see religious leaders stay out of politics in the future, though, but that’s just me and it’s a free country.
As for wearing the Obama shirt during a worship service or religious concert, well, it’s a bit of a distraction whether it’s a picture of Obama, George W, Clinton, etc. (although I just can’t see anyone wearing a picture of the first Bush…).
i was trying to listen to what you were saying… but i kept getting distracted by the hot shirtless man in this post.
Would you wear a t-shirt that had “Sex” written across it in big bold letters? I am married and a definitely for sex. It is perfectly okay for me to think about it, support it, and practice it. Does that mean I should wear that shirt in front of a conference I am speaking at? It is fine, morally, biblically, and legally…is it wise? That is the one answer I am not hearing, do the wise thing. Yes, sometimes people are idiots. Yes, sometimes people can’t differentiate between our implied intent versus what they may see or read into, but that is our responsibility not theirs. Let’s not eat the meat that was sacrificed to idols if it causes division among us.
Well said.
Los you started another hot one!
I sort of wrote a post about this the other day. But politics and faith are a tough one. Jesus was neither democrat nor republican. I believe we can have our beliefs and stand up for them, but we need to never lose fact that we are ultimately on the same team with the same purpose, and part of the same body. We can definitely disagree, but do it with love and respect.
I voted for Obama, but that doesn’t mean I support everything Democrats stand for. I believe in Jesus, but that doesn’t mean I support everything Christians stand for. You can’t put everyone in the same basket. In all honesty, when a Christian sides whole heartedly with one side or the other, it’s a bit scary for me. There is good and bad with both Democrats and Republicans. It really boils down to what we are called to be as Christians, and that is be a light in the darkness. We should be less concerned with Gay rights and be more concerned with their souls. In the same way that we hate abortion, we should hate war. We should take care of those who are less fortunate, and not get stingy with what God has blessed us with.
I think its sad that if Luke had on a McCain t-shirt instead, most Christians would be ok with it. It’s a double standard.
“In the same way that we hate abortion, we should hate war.”
No dude… There actually ARE justifiable wars. I’m not saying any of the wars we’re in now are or aren’t (not my point). I’m just saying there are justifiable reasons to go to war with another nation. If a sovereign nation attacks our country and declares war on us, we should rightly retaliate. I think your opinion might change if soldiers invaded our country and they broke into your home and killed your family. I’m pretty sure you’d be pro-war then…
However, there is NEVER justification for murdering an innocent child. Bad, bad, comparison.
I would not have voted for Obama in the last election. His policies differ from the ones that I think are best for America. However I do think that he is doing what he feels is best for Amercia and I sympathize with him that he’s not able to turn things around as soon as people hoped he would have. It takes time to turn a big ship around. As long as his policies don’t affect my faith I will support him as the leader that God has chosen for the country I live in. I hope that if he is no longer in control and the new leader leans to the other side in political policies, that most people will share my view too. Politics should not affect who you should and should not build relationships with in life.
Prop 8 was huge here in California in 2008. Here, 3 years later, I still see “Yes on 8″ stickers depicting a man and a woman and kids floating around here and there. What a huge fat slap in the face to the gay couples that silently attend church with them that they may not know about. Really, does that have anyplace in an enviornment where people go to be loved and accepted?
Politics should not be preached from the pulpit, nor should petitions be circulated. The church is made up off all sorts of people and there are always those that can’t seem to behave themselves.
I think that it can be done but won’t be done by everyone. I can completely sympathize with feeling like you need to turn your shirt inside out in certain situations. i have an obama t-shirt and there have been times where i have not worn it because I knew that some people would have a problem with it or that they would think differently of me. I definitely think that i should be able to wear the shirt without christians being judgmental and I also think that the Christian community needs to be careful when it comes to identifying themselves with a single political group. We need to collectively identify ourselves with Christ. Our political choices, which we won’t always agree on, should reflect that.
I understand this feeling, but we need to remember the words of Paul. He urged us to be careful to make sure we are not a stumbling block to our fellow Christians. Sometimes this is as simple as not wearing your Obama T shirt when you know it might offend someone. For me its making sure I do not drink a beer or a glass of wine when I am with certain people. “All things are lawful, but not all are profitable.” This means I could smoke, drink, do all kinds of things, but it comes at the expense of relationship which is infinitely more important.
you are definitely right which is why I choose not to wear the shirt. But that still begs the question of whether or not it’s ok for the other Christian in the situation to be offended towards the action. Is it okay for someone to assume that voting for obama or drinking an occasional glass of wine makes someone any less Christian? Where I’m from, I don’t see that many Christians loudly voicing their political opinions if they lean towards the left, but I do see many others who loudly voice their opinions that the right is the only way…and i don’t think that is a safe place to be.
Thank you for the provocative post.
I believe that the danger in Christians supporting a liberal like Obama is that at the core of his ideological values exists a true hatred for capitalism. He desires to pass socialistic policies that pose a threat to the foundation on which America was founded. Obama is a Christian in name only and for purely political reasons. He has publicly mocked Christianity and the Bible in the past.
This issue cannot be tackled from the individual policy approach. Not all Democrats support abortion and gay marriage. Politics is all about choosing the lesser of the two evils. When it comes down to it, Republicans have historically aligned with Christian doctrines more so than Democrats. This is not to say that there is anything wrong with leaning to either side of the fence, but we shouldn’t pretend like Christianity and politics are two seperate things that exist independently of each other. Our faith should guide our ideological values at all times, so if we agree on our faith, how could we disagree on politics?
This is a touchy subject… However, one must first get to know the person before judging whether or not they should vote a certain way. One of my best friends voted for President Obama, and where I do not agree with his politics and I am very conservative in my politics and my theology I would still have to say that Christians can disagree without being idiots. That being said I know Luke personally. We went to high school together in Fort Worth. I graduated with his older brother, and where I may not agree with everything Luke politically or maybe on other things, I think it is very admirable that he is willing to turn the shirt inside out as to not offend anyone. He is following the Apostle Paul’s instructions to not offend another brother. However, Luke, or anyone by that matter, should be able to wear a shirt of that nature (not one that is vulgar, but a ‘clean’ shirt that carries a message) wherever he wants.